Clutch rattle.... DRIVING ME NUTS

[NYTurbo]

Different clutch design. Maybe something to do witht the self adjusting design on the cat. but I would rather have a little rattle than have my clutches be junk after a few thousand kms like the cat .

I disagree , seen too many team primaries with 4000 plus miles that are still in great shape. Can not say that about some of the similar mileage Yamaha clutches on the Winders. That and have yet to see a Cat primary rattle.

 

[Big_Phil]

Whatever gets you going I guess, run the cat clutches if you feel more confident. There was a recall on the team primary, replacements are still cracking and the compression secondary is crap. And on top of all that, belts cost almost triple.

. My clutches have 7000kms on them and look mint. I can send a pic if you like. The Yamaha ones that broke, either had a seized roller, broken spring or some odd weights.

 

[KnappAttack]

Whatever gets you going I guess, run the cat clutches if you feel more confident. There was a recall on the team primary, replacements are still cracking and the compression secondary is crap. And on top of all that, belts cost almost triple.

. My clutches have 7000kms on them and look mint. I can send a pic if you like. The Yamaha ones that broke, either had a seized roller, broken spring or some odd weights.

I'm on my third set of Yamaha rollers in just 2000 miles. I'm thinking it maybe blowing the bushings out and cracking them the shock of blowing belts. Cats team primary on this same engine is nice and quiet. No problem running Cats Team primary with the Yamaha driven as a no deflection setup with a Cat length and width belt if you know what you're doing with it. At least its quiet.

And for what its worth, my Yamaha clutch rattles like a SOB when running all the way up to over 5000 RPM for the guys that think they just rattle only at idle. Its as bad or even worse than the old bucket of rattling bolts TRA on the 1200 was. Couldn't take that one either and switched to the PB80. I also have a PB80 to throw on the Winder I'll eventually try at some point.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I'm on my third set of Yamaha rollers in just 2000 miles. I'm thinking it maybe blowing the bushings out and cracking them the shock of blowing belts. Cats team primary on this same engine is nice and quiet. No problem running Cats Team primary with the Yamaha driven as a no deflection setup with a Cat length and width belt if you know what you're doing with it. At least its quiet.

And for what its worth, my Yamaha clutch rattles like a SOB when running all the way up to over 5000 RPM for the guys that think they just rattle only at idle. Its as bad or even worse than the old bucket of rattling bolts TRA on the 1200 was. Couldn't take that one either and switched to the PB80. I also have a PB80 to throw on the Winder I'll eventually try at some point.

Mike, you know anyone who has tried this? Using the Cat belt could aid in belt life. Did not think this could be done with stock winder secondary. Would be an interesting test to see if belt mileage is increased.

Dan

 

[Big_Phil]

I'm on my third set of Yamaha rollers in just 2000 miles. I'm thinking it maybe blowing the bushings out and cracking them the shock of blowing belts. Cats team primary on this same engine is nice and quiet. No problem running Cats Team primary with the Yamaha driven as a no deflection setup with a Cat length and width belt if you know what you're doing with it. At least its quiet.

And for what its worth, my Yamaha clutch rattles like a SOB when running all the way up to over 5000 RPM for the guys that think they just rattle only at idle. Its as bad or even worse than the old bucket of rattling bolts TRA on the 1200 was. Couldn't take that one either and switched to the PB80. I also have a PB80 to throw on the Winder I'll eventually try at some point.

Try the bigger rollers next season. They will raise your engagement, so just run a different spring if you want lower/softer engagement. I like the way it drives better and they won’t screw up.

 

[KnappAttack]

Mike, you know anyone who has tried this? Using the Cat belt could aid in belt life. Did not think this could be done with stock winder secondary. Would be an interesting test to see if belt mileage is increased.

Dan

I'll be trying it in the field next season, and yes, it can be done quite easily. I know the Cat belts are not lasting any longer on the tuned up Cats when they have bigger MPH gears in them either. Cat belt is not the answer for strength or lessening blowing, but like the Yamaha, some have reported better results with the Carlisle belt.

Try the bigger rollers next season. They will raise your engagement, so just run a different spring if you want lower/softer engagement. I like the way it drives better and they won’t screw up.

But the big rollers have the exact same bushings in the them as the smaller rollers and take the same abuse when the belt blows and cracks the same bushings, the same way when the clutch faces slam together at high RPM. I just don't see the bushings lasting any longer in the larger rollers than the small rollers, they have the same pressure on them. The three cylinder four-stroke is just plain hard on clutch parts with its harmonics, hence the reason it wears out parts quick in the clutches and blows belts easily.

 

[Big_Phil]

But the big rollers have the exact same bushings in the them as the smaller rollers and take the same abuse when the belt blows and cracks the same bushings, the same way when the clutch faces slam together at high RPM. I just don't see the bushings lasting any longer in the larger rollers than the small rollers, they have the same pressure on them. The three cylinder four-stroke is just plain hard on clutch parts with its harmonics, hence the reason it wears out parts quick in the clutches and blows belts easily.[/QUOTE]

Whatever you wanna do I suppose. The actual metal on the 14.5 mm roller is very thin. The actual metal on the 15.5mm is actually .5 mm thicker than the 14.5mm, because it takes the same bushing. I believe the 14.5 mm roller warps/distorts and this is what causes the bushing failure.

Secondly, with the small rollers, the belt grabs too hard all at once, causing trackspin on the snow, then your clutches overshift, and then when you get traction it’s almost like you’re in the wrong gear. With the bigger rollers, it stops that overshift when spinning and kinda keeps you better in the correct ratio. That’s why the mountain sleds use the bigger rollers, beacause they always have track spin

 

[NYTurbo]

Whatever gets you going I guess, run the cat clutches if you feel more confident. There was a recall on the team primary, replacements are still cracking and the compression secondary is crap. And on top of all that, belts cost almost triple.

. My clutches have 7000kms on them and look mint. I can send a pic if you like. The Yamaha ones that broke, either had a seized roller, broken spring or some odd weights.

Not going to argue with you. Ultimax makes a good belt for the Cat at $120. Clutches are much beefier and quiet. I agree the secondary isn't great.

 

[KnappAttack]

Whatever you wanna do I suppose. The actual metal on the 14.5 mm roller is very thin. The actual metal on the 15.5mm is actually .5 mm thicker than the 14.5mm, because it takes the same bushing. I believe the 14.5 mm roller warps/distorts and this is what causes the bushing failure.

Secondly, with the small rollers, the belt grabs too hard all at once, causing trackspin on the snow, then your clutches overshift, and then when you get traction it’s almost like you’re in the wrong gear. With the bigger rollers, it stops that overshift when spinning and kinda keeps you better in the correct ratio. That’s why the mountain sleds use the bigger rollers, beacause they always have track spin

I've checked the stock rollers for distortion as I thought the same thing, but I measure no bending, distortion or thinning of the steel roller whatsoever, so I ruled that out.

I don't spin and have no over or under shift. Larger rollers will promote belt slippage with no track spin unless you shim the spider accordingly, or weight the heels heavily, ala heel clicker style weight to grip the belt harder down low.

Best solution to lessen the load on rollers it to double them up and go to a six arm clutch or at least a four arm clutch, but because the three cylinder is so hard on the primary, the aftermarket clutches are not lasting a long time either and actually also set off the det sensor they rattle so bad.

 

[Big_Phil]

Best solution to lessen the load on rollers it to double them up and go to a six arm clutch or at least a four arm clutch, but because the three cylinder is so hard on the primary, the aftermarket clutches are not lasting a long time either and actually also set off the det sensor they rattle so bad.[/QUOTE]

I only got about 500km on the bigger rollers then ran out of snow. I just know my Nytro ran the same weights, same primary spring and same rollers for 7000kms or so. 60y supertips @ around 80 grams. I do run the heels fully loaded. 2 tungsten. Just to me it’s the same clutch with some thicker castings, so If the rollers held up on my Nytro they should be fine on this.

Ya I saw on Facebook that the stm clutches aren’t holding up well and are not reccomended for trail riding.