Dynotch shows 2011 APEX Mysteriously lost 10HP vs prototype

[SledFreak]

Forget Jim's dyno for a minute here...

Why forget about the thing that is the obvious key factor of this thread...? The factor that seems to pull everybodys leg...?
Do like me instead. Relax, kick back and understand that we are looking at the dawn of a new era - the old and famous (infamous...?) ten horsepower offset between DynoTech and the rest of the industry is finally gone...!
On a side note, feel free to speculate how this will affect the trustworthiness of people that used to tell you that "they will for sure not listen to any other dyno results that the dyno results released by Dyno Tech"...

You guys still seem to think that it's Jim;s dyno? I don't believe it was either of his dynos. The fact of the matter is jim used a FC on the summer/fall sled and did not for the shootout. He told me personally without the FC, the sled only made 151 in the summer/fall dyno. It also is the same hp number for the shootout sled. The FC brought out the 162hp. D&D pulled the exact same numbers as Jim on their dyno. So is Jim;s dyno wrong? No, I don't believe it is. Bottom line is this.... And this is the last I will say about this. Yamaha has tried to deceive us on this hp crap for this particular sled. I believe the hp is there... However a FC, is required to see the marketing 162+ hp that you see in Yamaha dealer showroom floors advertised. They may have gotten screwed on the EPA and that is why, the hp does not show.... I anyone who thinks it's the dyno, then get on the phone and talk to Jim at dynotech and then talk to Dale at D&D racing. Dale dynoed the shootouts sled and so did Jim at dynotech. It was D&D's sled at the shootout....

 

[Rocketman]

I wonder how i'd feel if i bought the 180HP Z1 and the apex was on my heel all the down the lake............... watch it happen

 

[fourload]

If it has the taller cobra track and isn't running perfect an 06-10 can run with them. Even D&D Glen Hall says the Apex runs very strong like a true 160hp sled. That to me means he thinks the AC doesn't run like a true 180hp sled. He should know he now tunes both....

 

[Rocketman]

Yaaa, what fourload said

 

[dirkdiggler]

Andy stop let it go dude!! I already told you do you think Jim would have told you my dyno has read 10 hp high for over 10 years???

I've dynoed lots of sleds and I've never seen a sled gain 10 hp because it was lean. When they are that lean they will not run on the dyno. I've seen sleds make 10 hp from leaning them out. If the apex was so lean you were losing 10hp it would live or run.

 

[**sj**]

Ive sat back and said nothing on this subject and can resolve some of it this way...

have any of you gone shopping for a mower or snowblower and seen the new motors anounce the CC's and not the H.p.? or the torque?

the reason is liability from lawsuits...one of the things yamaha does the most to avoid...it seems even the 150fi and the 120fi...well I never seem to recall Yamaha themselves claim a certain H.P.

the fact there are manufacturing tolerances (weve all seen a "good one" vs a "turd" in the same exact sled) yet alone whatever variables that might cause an eventual difference in power....well they just arent or dont want to "claim" anything that makes them liable...

to me its the difference between a 06-10 vs the new one...bottomline...they probably averaged 7-10 h.p. dependant of those variables...with a brader torque band less sensitive to load like the old machine...

the amazing thing to me is some of these so called experts who swear on one machine is the greatest since sliced bread and then the next is the same..lessens their credibility....

take one of many machines...set them up properly and they can run...only a few will be fast from bottom to top...and then have dependability to always get you back...

thats why were here boys...

 

[**sj**]

also...a dyno and the operator is a tool of comparison...not the end all be all...

the purpose is to compare against other "tests"

In my opinion...if DTR was to do these multiple comparo's pre 10's vs the 11' ...there would be that 7-10 h.p. and a broader band ...

the same would hold true with comparo's of other brands vs previous models...it all averages out..

 

[Turk]

I think sj is pointing a finger at me. I had 06/07 attaks. Nice sled on groomed trails & it ended there. Big fail on big bumps & deep snow. Xtx nytro had great spunk; awesome in deep snow but lacked top end& hard to steer in tight corners.. The 2011 apex xtx does it all very well. Wicked acceleration; great in powder & takes the big bumps very very well. the eps hides the weight very very well & in 3/4 of my riding it feels lighter then my xtx nytro.
Just putting it out there!!!

 

[Riceburner]

In Canada Yamaha advertises in mags and in showrooms 162+hp's.

Yamablog wrote:
I went on record last spring as saying the new Apex had around a 5% increase in horsepower and a wider torque curve with no drops… Dynotech has had the opportunity to flash a production unit and heres what they came up with: (you can click to enlarge)… under promise and over deliver?
[/b]

Seems pretty obvious to me this is Dynotech's testing, not Yamaha's since it clearly says so at the top of each chart.

I have no problem with Yamaha. Chris said 5 % and that is what I am expecting. Anything more is a bonus.

The main point is, both tests show the Cat, Doo & Apex very close in Horse power and performance.[ be it low 150's or low 160's depending on the dyno of the day]

Seems 10 HP or so disappeared from all 3. That should be the question. Not just the Apex.

 

[dirkdiggler]

It's clear the new dyno reads lower. Jim isn't going to admit that. End of story.

 

[sx7001]

OK, I can't take this anymore. This is for the 2011 Apex only. Look at the factory stamp on your motor. (just above the primary clutch on the case) If it is 8HG-000746 or a lower number you may be faster than 000747 and above. Remember Specifications Are Subject To Change Without Notice.

Larry

 

[dirkdiggler]

Last time I checked they don't race dyno's

 

[Riceburner]

OK, I can't take this anymore. This is for the 2011 Apex only. Look at the factory stamp on your motor. (just above the primary clutch on the case) If it is 8HG-000746 or a lower number you may be faster than 000747 and above. Remember Specifications Are Subject To Change Without Notice.

Larry

OK Larry,

That's not fair !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spill your guts. What changed at 747 ?

Dave

 

[RunninRX1]

I saw the 2011 dyno data at a private session with Yamaha last year. I was sitting too far away to see the actual numbers vs a 2010, but rough guesstimate was 5-8% more peak and TONS more mid range.
The "track" performance I see on here, and in the shootout MPH numbers, plus my opinion of riding them personally tells me it is making more power. How much? I really don't care as it sure did pull alot harder all over than my 06.

One reason you don't see the sled OEM's posting HP numbers is exactly what you guys are arguing about right now. They put up what they find, then you take the machine to your local dyno shop and see something different.. your goign to whine if its lower. So they rely on independant shops that typcially have a good reputation to do it. If you go and watch the videos on the Cat site where they talk about HP.. the one Cat dude is standing in front of a dyno but they talk about independant dyno shops #'s.
It's the same thing the car companies do with thier "pony" cars. 2011 Mustangs, Camaros and SRT8's ALL make more power than what they advertise so people don't cry foul when they dyno them.

I've dynoed tens of thousands of engines on all sorts of dynos.. from the cheap ones to million dollar dynos. The cheap ones (well relatively speaking) like say a Superflow 90x are tools.. not instruments. Put that engine on some other dyno and I think you MAY possibly get different results. Lots of factors involved.
I went to Dynotech's site.. looks like I have to pay them to see anything. Not sure if I like that or not.
I see people talkign about "lean" and it needed some fuel controller. Well.. on a 150-160 HP N/A engine.. fuel only IS NOT goign to give you that big of a percentage increase in power output unless there was something else way wrong. I'd like to know what "lean" was also. What is lean on one engine may be rich on another. Been doing this stuff for 20+ years for the OEM's, aftermarket and the EPA.
Now if they did add a controller and messed with the fueling.. shame on them as the original reports did not mention anythign about it. If Yamaha knew about it.. shame on both of them.

 

[**sj**]

I think sj is pointing a finger at me. I had 06/07 attaks. Nice sled on groomed trails & it ended there. Big fail on big bumps & deep snow. Xtx nytro had great spunk; awesome in deep snow but lacked top end& hard to steer in tight corners.. The 2011 apex xtx does it all very well. Wicked acceleration; great in powder & takes the big bumps very very well. the eps hides the weight very very well & in 3/4 of my riding it feels lighter then my xtx nytro.
Just putting it out there!!!

absolutely not...multi camp member..just like some parents who are blind and think theyre kids are "the best"...think theyre current sled is "the best"

they nytro xtx required the most tweaking ....its spring and shock valving was totally off and therefore made the sled feel longer and heavier than it was...its amazing what valving and springs can do...just ask anyone whos done it to this sled..