kinger
VIP Member
I'm not sure what to do, its almost like a blockage in the block but I have no idea how that would have happened.
I'm debating on pulling the engine or doing something else. I can pull the engine in about 4 hours I think now myself but not sure what I would do with it after that, pull the oil pump and inspect it I guess. I'm far from a mechanic so I wouldn't even know what I was looking at.
Not sure yet, flurries tonight this is what I didn't want to have happen, goal was to be done by Nov 1.
I'm debating on pulling the engine or doing something else. I can pull the engine in about 4 hours I think now myself but not sure what I would do with it after that, pull the oil pump and inspect it I guess. I'm far from a mechanic so I wouldn't even know what I was looking at.
Not sure yet, flurries tonight this is what I didn't want to have happen, goal was to be done by Nov 1.
kinger
VIP Member
If it was not pumping at all would the oil filter be dry? It was soaked when I removed it. At some point oil got to it just not with the engine off and applying pressure.
I'll try spinning it over without the coils connected and see if I can get it to shoot oil out of the filter location. If so then I know I have a pump and there is a blockage.
I'll try spinning it over without the coils connected and see if I can get it to shoot oil out of the filter location. If so then I know I have a pump and there is a blockage.
jbsr
Extreme
I had troule getting oil to pump after a piston failure.
I removed the oil sending unit and put pressurized oil in that fitting. I used an oil cooler flushing tank to pressuize the oil. With this pressure applied it was safe to rev it up and it started to pump oil.
Ithink it took a couple of tries but it worked . The pressureized oil will run back to the pump and help to prime it.
I removed the oil sending unit and put pressurized oil in that fitting. I used an oil cooler flushing tank to pressuize the oil. With this pressure applied it was safe to rev it up and it started to pump oil.
Ithink it took a couple of tries but it worked . The pressureized oil will run back to the pump and help to prime it.
kinger
VIP Member
What is a oil cooler flushing tank ? Is that just a small pump? That is what I am thinking of using to push oil through the entire system then fire it up and see if it pumps.
jbsr
Extreme
black john
TY 4 Stroke Guru
oil pump
stop fooling around some thing is wrong. may be an o ring seal has been left out. it,s just like any other pump if there is an vacum leak on the pick up side it just wont pick up oil . so before you do any damage bite the bullet and pull that moter apert. i know it,s had haveing to do the same job twice. but all of this fooling around just is not worth it . some thing is wrong . to go on could get very costly .
stop fooling around some thing is wrong. may be an o ring seal has been left out. it,s just like any other pump if there is an vacum leak on the pick up side it just wont pick up oil . so before you do any damage bite the bullet and pull that moter apert. i know it,s had haveing to do the same job twice. but all of this fooling around just is not worth it . some thing is wrong . to go on could get very costly .
how could it be a missed o ring if the bottom end was never apart. the oil pmp ever eft the motor. The pan was never off. O rings can't just fall out.
kinger
VIP Member
Yeah I'm not scared to pull it again, I am scared that if I do there is nothing wrong!
I'm going to try one last thing and if that doesn't work engine is coming out. Thanks a lot guys!
I'm going to try one last thing and if that doesn't work engine is coming out. Thanks a lot guys!
kinger said:
Oh, there is something wrong. It isn't nearly as hard to get the pump primed and working as you are experiencing. I've done lots of complete re-builds and never had to do more than pressurize the tank for a few seconds to get it working.
Sorry Kinger.
Dont give up...it will prime.......um alteast it should. 
kinger
VIP Member
Thanks Familyman!
I know i should just pull it and rule it out but I got a small external electric oil pump and I am going to pump oil through the entire engine till it comes out the return tube and then try it. When I tried the air with the oil filter off; the engine just sounded hollow and bubbling oil like mad in there. I may have got over zealous with the air when I first filled it up and screwed it up to where it won't prime now with all the oil galleries filled with air pockets.
Pumping oil throughout the whole system without it running will be a good indication if I either have a blockage or the pump is not working. Based on that I will feel good about pulling it and R&R'ing the oil pump.
Thanks again!
I know i should just pull it and rule it out but I got a small external electric oil pump and I am going to pump oil through the entire engine till it comes out the return tube and then try it. When I tried the air with the oil filter off; the engine just sounded hollow and bubbling oil like mad in there. I may have got over zealous with the air when I first filled it up and screwed it up to where it won't prime now with all the oil galleries filled with air pockets.
Pumping oil throughout the whole system without it running will be a good indication if I either have a blockage or the pump is not working. Based on that I will feel good about pulling it and R&R'ing the oil pump.
Thanks again!
kinger
VIP Member
Well I made some progress, I removed the oil filter and pressurized the tank and guess what oil came out! There was a lot of burbling and gargling then woosh it came out!
I got real excited at this point so I fired it up and did the same thing.....nothing
So i removed the oil filter and started it up....nothing
Engine is coming out, going to R&R the oil pump and because they are connected the waterpump for the 2nd time.
Makes me mad but I'm more stressed about it not being ready for snow so I might as well bite the bullet.
Only question now is if I should take it back to my dealer, they have always been real good but I think they had that pan off I just don't know why it would quit working without doing something. I'll pull the pan myself and spin the impeller a few times before I take it anywhere and see what the dilly is.
Thanks everyone!
I got real excited at this point so I fired it up and did the same thing.....nothing
So i removed the oil filter and started it up....nothing
Engine is coming out, going to R&R the oil pump and because they are connected the waterpump for the 2nd time.
Makes me mad but I'm more stressed about it not being ready for snow so I might as well bite the bullet.
Only question now is if I should take it back to my dealer, they have always been real good but I think they had that pan off I just don't know why it would quit working without doing something. I'll pull the pan myself and spin the impeller a few times before I take it anywhere and see what the dilly is.
Thanks everyone!
Sorry Kinger, I can only imagine how frustrated you are.
I think when you open it up a bit you're going to find a missing o-ring, second guess is the chain being off of the shaft.
I know that you said the oil pan wasn't removed by the dealer, but I'm pretty sure it was. It is a hell of a lot easier to re-install the water pump with the oil pan off (I actually can't imagine doing it any other way). Mechanics typically take the path of least resistance when R&R'ing parts. It takes about 2 minutes to remove the oil pan with the engine on a bench, and would make the water pump install much easier. It would be way more dicking around to try and install it any other way.
I think when you open it up a bit you're going to find a missing o-ring, second guess is the chain being off of the shaft.
I know that you said the oil pan wasn't removed by the dealer, but I'm pretty sure it was. It is a hell of a lot easier to re-install the water pump with the oil pan off (I actually can't imagine doing it any other way). Mechanics typically take the path of least resistance when R&R'ing parts. It takes about 2 minutes to remove the oil pan with the engine on a bench, and would make the water pump install much easier. It would be way more dicking around to try and install it any other way.
kinger
VIP Member
Thank Jim, I may ask for help once I get in there, I'm still not proclaiming to be a mechanic, I have studied the microfiche through and through and service manual procedures but not really sure what I will be looking for other then what you mentioned.
I'm wondering if I should check the crank and bearings while its out? I wouldn't know if anything woudl be visable if I just looked at it though. Not sure I want to remove a rod cap for fear I woudl screw that up next!! What do you think?
It has run with no load up to 4500 rpm once or twice and total duration maybe 2 minutes never exceeding a minute at once (trying to stick to the yamaha manual when I was messing with the bleed screw).
I'm wondering if I should check the crank and bearings while its out? I wouldn't know if anything woudl be visable if I just looked at it though. Not sure I want to remove a rod cap for fear I woudl screw that up next!! What do you think?
It has run with no load up to 4500 rpm once or twice and total duration maybe 2 minutes never exceeding a minute at once (trying to stick to the yamaha manual when I was messing with the bleed screw).
kinger said:
I don't think you have to worry about the crank bearings. If you really wanted to check them the engine is a complete dis-assembly. My cell number is posted on a number of threads on this site, but here it is again:
(204) 232-3733
Give me a call when you're tearing into it and I'll help you with what to look for. Tech support is free, but sometimes I'll suggest a small donation to TY or your local snowmobile club if I think it is warranted.
