Gap closed loop tuning!!

[sledding rocks]

question for the guys that r using the closed loop with header and fuel pressure regulator , what pressure r u setting your regulator at key on only ? and what a/f # r u seeing with closed loop on ?

 

[snowcaine]

question for the guys that r using the closed loop with header and fuel pressure regulator , what pressure r u setting your regulator at key on only ? and what a/f # r u seeing with closed loop on ?

TD. Header, fuel pump, pressure regulator. I sit on Max Spool 17. 48 psi key on. AFR behaving like it should according to data logs. Changes by the fraction of a second. Eg from one of my logs 12.1 at 8977. 0.001 second later 11.6 at 9023. 0.001 second later 11.7 at 9117. Datalogging well worth it imo.

 

[Janne339]

For fuel this is what we noticed!!!
I ran with 3 other guys
2 of us run hurricane header pm tunes with closed loop
2 of us run hurricane pm tunes with stock exhaust manifold no closed loop
We ran for 3 days together paying close attention to fuel economy.
All 4 off used exactly the same amounts of fuel at each fill up
3 guys 24/50 and I run 21/38
I am guessing our header tunes are probably are a little harder on fuel? It would have been nice to have a one of us with header and no cl for better comparison.

We have 2 other buddies that been riding together all season.
Both the same set up but one hurricane and one td
Pm tunes ,3 bar, trail mufflers , bov, ...
The hurricane guy has closed loop and the td guy did not.

The hurricane guy with cl was seeing 5 to 8$ less at each fill up.
But hear is the kicker..lol
The same hurricane guy with cl rides with another hurricane guy with the exact set up but no cl and they end up exactly the same at the pumps.when filling!!

As for performance throttle did feel crisp.. we did notice less black sout on the exhaust side lower pannel.

All the guys I know who run the closed loop has no issues. Some who purchased cl early season needed a update and all was good


Imo: -no noticeable change in performance
- Fuel mileage is NOT an 18% reduction as Ben from td stated.
- i do like having afr displayed on my gauge
- in warm weather riding we did have less exhaust Soot on panel and no more warm weather backfiring. So it definitely runs leaner and cleaner

Hopefully other with cl chime in with there experience and comparisons

Thanks for an informative answer!

Crispy throttle and cleaner feeling is great!

 

[0degC]

TD. Header, fuel pump, pressure regulator. I sit on Max Spool 17. 48 psi key on. AFR behaving like it should according to data logs. Changes by the fraction of a second. Eg from one of my logs 12.1 at 8977. 0.001 second later 11.6 at 9023. 0.001 second later 11.7 at 9117. Datalogging well worth it imo.

In your data logs what is fuel multiplier saying.. at that pressure do you find mostly removing fuel?

 

[Hammer70]

For fuel this is what we noticed!!!
I ran with 3 other guys
2 of us run hurricane header pm tunes with closed loop
2 of us run hurricane pm tunes with stock exhaust manifold no closed loop
We ran for 3 days together paying close attention to fuel economy.
All 4 off used exactly the same amounts of fuel at each fill up
3 guys 24/50 and I run 21/38
I am guessing our header tunes are probably are a little harder on fuel? It would have been nice to have a one of us with header and no cl for better comparison.

We have 2 other buddies that been riding together all season.
Both the same set up but one hurricane and one td
Pm tunes ,3 bar, trail mufflers , bov, ...
The hurricane guy has closed loop and the td guy did not.

The hurricane guy with cl was seeing 5 to 8$ less at each fill up.
But hear is the kicker..lol
The same hurricane guy with cl rides with another hurricane guy with the exact set up but no cl and they end up exactly the same at the pumps.when filling!!

As for performance throttle did feel crisp.. we did notice less black sout on the exhaust side lower pannel.

All the guys I know who run the closed loop has no issues. Some who purchased cl early season needed a update and all was good


Imo: -no noticeable change in performance
- Fuel mileage is NOT an 18% reduction as Ben from td stated.
- i do like having afr displayed on my gauge
- in warm weather riding we did have less exhaust Soot on panel and no more warm weather backfiring. So it definitely runs leaner and cleaner

Hopefully other with cl chime in with there experience and comparisons

That’s exactly what I came up with nice right up Yamamarc.

 

[snowcaine]

In your data logs what is fuel multiplier saying.. at that pressure do you find mostly removing fuel?

I don't know enough to answer that question, so I'll just post a screenshot example. For the fuel multiplier number, it fluctuates 98-105 roughly and sometimes spikes higher up to 116. But, I don't know what that means...

 

[lakercr]

The air fuel multiplier is pretty simple:

100% means it is doing nothing - you are getting 100% of the fuel the tune requires/was written for.
90% (just picking a number) means the closed loop is pulling 10% of the fuel being supplied - you only need 90% fuel to hit the target a/f ratio.
115% means that you are getting an additional 15% fuel added to hit the tune's target a/f number.

 

[snowcaine]

The air fuel multiplier is pretty simple:

100% means it is doing nothing - you are getting 100% of the fuel the tune requires/was written for.
90% (just picking a number) means the closed loop is pulling 10% of the fuel being supplied - you only need 90% fuel to hit the target a/f ratio.
115% means that you are getting an additional 15% fuel added to hit the tune's target a/f number.

Great explanation! Thank you.

 

[fatchance]

Snowcaine, just curious if that was a WOT pull because your RPM is very erratic. What does your boost line look like? Guessing it was just seeing what the multiplier is doing

 

[snowcaine]

Snowcaine, just curious if that was a WTO pull because your RPM is very erratic. What does your boost line look like? Guessing it was just seeing what the multiplier is doing

No that wasn't a WOT sustained pull. That was screwing around from a stop in a field after I fully loaded my TAPP with 8 allen screws and 4 washers per bolt to see how far I could pull the RPM's down. Was seriously overrevving. I'm still working on the primary/secondary combination to get me where I want to be. Not enough snow time to test, and when I'm riding it's with others so I can't do as much testing/swapping as I want.

Here are a couple screenshots with boost added in. The first screenshot is at the same point in time as the previous screenshot I posted. In the second screenshot, I blipped the throttle a fraction of a second before and the boost accordingly jumped.

 

[THEPASMAN]

Just curious

what is a “good “ number

 

[Phatboyc]

So what you guys are saying is the only condition close loop is more efficient to noticed at the pump is when the outside temperature is warm. Like warmer then -10C or more?

To bad none of you guys ride with any stock Sidewinders.

 

[lakercr]

Could show the log with boost, rpm, throttle, speed, and fuel multiplier? If you want to play the bonus round, turn on knock ping counter as well.

ps. - you live in Indiana and have your speed in metric?! There is only one unit for measuring speed, and that is MPH!

 

[lakercr]

Just curious

what is a “good “ number

A good number for fuel multiplier?

 

[snowcaine]

So what you guys are saying is the only condition close loop is more efficient to noticed at the pump is when the outside temperature is warm. Like warmer then -10C or more?

To bad none of you guys ride with any stock Sidewinders.

I have no idea about mileage and don't care. My dad on the other hand is always studying mileage at every fill up. He has a '20 LTX-GT TD tuned 275 hp Powertrail with 3" stock modified muffler and CAI. He determined closed loop got him ~1.5 mpg more (from ~14. to 15.5 mpg). In other words, he attributes closed loop to 10% better mileage. I haven't done any comparisons myself because I don't care about mileage. I also trust Marc's analysis on here concluding no net gain, but I will say that my dad is pretty serious about his mileage studies...