Handlebar Warmer problem solved!

[actionjack]

These might be a workable solution for the really cold days.
http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Aer ... 16731.html

At 1.6 amp draw you could run them from the aux point if you wire on a plug in. I'd seen these before in bike catalogs but never thought much about them till a poster on another sight brought them up.

That looks like a decent solution to me. But I still want to put in the bar heater to supplement the factory grips. That really seems like the best setup to me. Looking forward to seeing Tom's completed solution, or MR RXLs for that matter.

 

[RacerDave]

I just ordered those wrap around warmers. Hopefully I can post about them after X-mas week. $53 shipped to Illinois.

 

[Bradford]

My tests show that the heaters only run at 30% at idle, regardless of the setting so I'm going with the theory that my hands get cold because the bars are always cold when I first start riding. Once you're cold, it's hard to recover. The ECU does supply a constant 12V (or very close to it) above 4000 RPM when the heaters are set at max but by that time, it's too late. You get cold before the bars get warm...

mr rxl started this thread with the idea of feeding a constant 12V to the heaters. This way, the bars can warm up while you're warming up your sled. I think this will make a huge difference so this is what I decided to try but I put a bit of a spin on it.

I made a timer circuit that senses the pulses from the ECU. As long as the pulses are present, the timer never fires and everything works normally. If the heaters are turned off, the pulses stop, the timer fires after 1 second and turns on a relay that feeds 12V to the heaters while breaking the circuit from the ECU. So, in a nutshell, to make the heaters run at 100%, I turn them off! It sounds counter-intuitive but you get the idea... This also avoids the issue of the error code because as far as the ECU is concerned, the heaters are off so it doesn't detect the open circuit. As soon as I turn the heaters back on, the relay drops out and everything works normally again. I also included a switch to disable the unit for those 40 deg days when you really do want the heaters fully off.

All I need now is snow and cold to try it out...

 

[BLUEBALLER]

My tests show that the heaters only run at 30% at idle, regardless of the setting so I'm going with the theory that my hands get cold because the bars are always cold when I first start riding. Once you're cold, it's hard to recover. The ECU does supply a constant 12V (or very close to it) above 4000 RPM when the heaters are set at max but by that time, it's too late. You get cold before the bars get warm...

mr rxl started this thread with the idea of feeding a constant 12V to the heaters. This way, the bars can warm up while you're warming up your sled. I think this will make a huge difference so this is what I decided to try but I put a bit of a spin on it.

I made a timer circuit that senses the pulses from the ECU. As long as the pulses are present, the timer never fires and everything works normally. If the heaters are turned off, the pulses stop, the timer fires after 1 second and turns on a relay that feeds 12V to the heaters while breaking the circuit from the ECU. So, in a nutshell, to make the heaters run at 100%, I turn them off! It sounds counter-intuitive but you get the idea... This also avoids the issue of the error code because as far as the ECU is concerned, the heaters are off so it doesn't detect the open circuit. As soon as I turn the heaters back on, the relay drops out and everything works normally again. I also included a switch to disable the unit for those 40 deg days when you really do want the heaters fully off.

All I need now is snow and cold to try it out...

The ECU supplies a constant 12V to the grips (no matter the RPM), yet we are STILL trying to get constant 12V directly from the battery.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Bradford]

The ECU supplies a constant 12V to the grips (no matter the RPM), yet we are STILL trying to get constant 12V directly from the battery.

I assume the ECU in my 06 functions the same as your 08. What I found is at idle the PWM is at 30% regardless of the setting. If you set the heaters at full, the PWM varies between 30% and 100% when the engine revs between 1100 RPM and 4000RPM. (There's a utube link in here somewhere that shows the effect of engine speed on the PWM duty cycle on an FX Nytro). If the RPM falls below 1100, the heaters shut off.

I believe that having hot bars when you start riding will help. It's easier to stay warm than it is to get warm.

Brad.

 

[Blue Dave]

Brad,

If you prove on a test ride that your circuit works like you think it will (I believe that it will), please post a schematic and p/n's for the components.

 

[Rockmeister]

I believe that having hot bars when you start riding will help. It's easier to stay warm than it is to get warm.
Brad.

I agree Brad.
The wattage of the grips really hasn't changed, it's the way the grips are powered that has changed.

Great idea using the timer relay, doesn't change any load on the ECU, etc.
Are you using a circuit you built, or a pre-built timer relay?
Pretty cool.
Do you have a copy of the schematic?
Would like to see it!

 

[Bradford]

Brad,

If you prove on a test ride that your circuit works like you think it will (I believe that it will), please post a schematic and p/n's for the components.

Are you using a circuit you built, or a pre-built timer relay? Do you have a copy of the schematic?
Would like to see it!

It's a circuit that I built. The schematic is just pencil on paper right now but I'll post it when I have time. Gotta do the paid job thing first...

 

[Rockmeister]

Hahahahaha!
Totally understand the job thing.

May be able to help you on the timer.
This will save the time and expense of building anything, just wire it in and go.
They make a timer relay for auto alarms that is cheap, adjustable for time, and tough.
I have a few and will try it out.
It is a DEI528T, a standard DEI alarm timer, you can find on ebay, or at most places that install car alarms like best buy, etc.
They cost about $10-15.

Adjustable from 1 to 45 seconds delay.
Negative or positive pulse input. (Will use positive)
Runs on 12v dc.
SPDT Relay built in.

Wire the warmer hot wire to the common relay terminal.
Wire key switch controlled 12v constant source to NC terminal.
Wire ECU output to NO terminal & to positive trigger input.
Wire relay + power to blue/white light wire.
Wire Relay - wire to ground.
(Will get the wire colors for these.)

Put timer off switch in the NC terminal lead.

Pretty easy...

 

[mr rxl]

My theory on why the factory warmers don't work is because there is not a constant 12v being supplied to a heating element. If you keep turning the element on and off, it never gets up to temperature.
The factory warmers/grips are fine. When 12 volts is constantly supplied, the are perfect.( almost too hot).
By supplying the constant 12 from a source other that the ECM and having the warmers disconected from the ECM you lose the control on the handlebar, but you don't risk hurting the ECM.

 

[Bradford]

Thanks rockmeister. Mine is all built and tested. Maybe I should have waited...

I don't know what the total functionality of your timer is but I assume the 1~45 second delay is an entry delay that gives you a chance to turn the alarm off before it trips. If so, what you're proposing would power the relay at some given time interval after the first pulse was detected from the ECU. I don't see how this would work. Also, how is your timer reset once it trips? The idea is to have the relay fire when there are no pulses for 1 second and to de-energize the relay once pulses are detected again. If I'm missing something here, let me know.

Brad

 

[Bradford]

By supplying the constant 12 from a source other that the ECM and having the warmers disconected from the ECM you lose the control on the handlebar, but you don't risk hurting the ECM.

Agreed!
all the timer circuit does is feed 12V to the heaters when they are turned off from the toggle on the bars and reconnected them when turned back on again.

Brad

 

[actionjack]

Pardon my ignorance. Why not just add a dial resistor to Brads set up and get warmers like we had/have on our old Yamahas?

 

[Rockmeister]

Thanks rockmeister. Mine is all built and tested. Maybe I should have waited...

I don't know what the total functionality of your timer is but I assume the 1~45 second delay is an entry delay that gives you a chance to turn the alarm off before it trips. If so, what you're proposing would power the relay at some given time interval after the first pulse was detected from the ECU. I don't see how this would work. Also, how is your timer reset once it trips? The idea is to have the relay fire when there are no pulses for 1 second and to de-energize the relay once pulses are detected again. If I'm missing something here, let me know.

Brad

It is a self-resetting one-shot timer. (Think of it as a pulse stretcher.)
When it is pulsed, it makes an output pulse of the duration it is set to (1-45 seconds), no matter how long the input pulse is.
If it gets another pulse after it times out, it will do it again.

So if you wire it as I mentioned above, and set it to basically anything, it will provide a minimum one second pulse, the ECU sends out pulses faster than that, so it keeps the warmers connected to the ECU, and controlled by the ECU.

If you turn the warmers down to "off" it will time out and connect the warmers directly to 12v
Your switch will be able to over ride this full blast heat mode.

The big advantage of this that I see, is to be able to control your WARM hands with the current controls on the bars.

PS This and above is a quick off the top of my head wiring. Let me have a chance to think the failure modes through, and do a circuit test on it.

 

[Bradford]

Thanks rockmeister! Let me know how you make out. That would be a simple fix if it works out.

For anyone that's interested, here's what I came up with. It might be over-kill but I'm just burning time until there's enough #^#$ snow to sled on...

The optional LED circuit gives an indication of the amount of heat being supplied to the heaters. I put it in for testing (a simple visual check) and decided to leave it in. It simply changes brightness with the amount of energy supplied to the heaters

Brad