• We are no longer supporting TapaTalk as a mobile app for our sites. The TapaTalk App has many issues with speed on our server as well as security holes that leave us vulnerable to attacks and spammers.

Interesting rumor


AKrider said:
.....
I'm just glad I'm not a Yamaha dealer. It has got to be tough selling sleds that few people want, trying to sell Rhinos that haven't hardly changed since they came out in '04.

They NEED to do something.
Click to expand...
True. The local dealer here didn't even bring in any 2012 Yamahas - just AC's. And I just recently bought a 2010 Venture TF from another dealer at $5300 off the suggested price - how can a dealer make money like that!
 
There are a lot of things going on that do point to a new sled or sleds coming from Yamaha next year. Plenty of hints are being dropped on their Facebook site and the the model names SR Viper and SR Venom have recently been trademarked. Yamaha also has some very good incentives and financing going right now to clear out inventory. That is one reason I decided to finally trade up to a new carryover 2012 Nytro XTX. I do believe releasing a new model this year would have been a disaster without doing what they can to clear out old stock. Yamaha has never operated that way and I do think they want their house in order before new models drop with little old inventory sitting around.

People who say it is out of the ordinary for Yamaha to keep producing the same models for several years need to take a look back. The first generation Phazer and Phazer II were produced for about 13 years! Granted it was a very popular model and the II was a fairly significant update, but still the basic design went on and on. Even some of the other companies who are more based around snowmobiles like Arctic Cat have kept certain models or chassis in production for many years. Yes, the current models are getting towards the end of their run, but I do feel improvements have been over the years and the current lines have never been abandoned.

The other thing I read is that Yamaha has recently consolidated many of their assembly lines in Japan and is using a lot of flex manufacturing in both engine and final assembly. They have moved assembly lines and engine plants and are now are building the engines and sleds in the same facility. You don't make changes like that if you are planning to exit the business. Granted sleds account for a tiny production run compared to the bikes, but still they have done a lot of restructuring to improve efficiency and normally a corporation doesn't spend on moving lines for products that will soon be cut.

Now back to the original rumor. I honestly believe that Arctic Cat is in trouble as far as an engine supplier is concerned. I know they have their own small engine plant that is turning out some ATV engines, but even with that they are still using imported Korean engines in many of their smaller models. I believe Suzuki wanted out of their partnership more then Arctic Cat wanted them out. Building engines specifically for snowmobiles isn't a money maker and I think Suzuki just wants to move on. Arctic Cat does build a 1000 V-twin which is a lower revving ATV engine good for about 70 HP. That engine wouldn't work worth a darn in a performance sled and engineering and manufacturing tolerances become extremely precise when we are talking about engines like the ones in Nytros and Apexes.

I suppose they could just throw a turbo on that 1000 V-twin, but how is it going to handle that sort of stress? They might be engineering all new very advanced engines, but without much to build on it will take years to get to the same level a company like Yamaha is at.

So with that said could I see Yamaha supply a performance 4 stroke engine like the Nytro engine to Arctic Cat? Sure. Profitability of the snowmobile division would increase if they can build twice the amount of engines. Last, just because Yamaha started supplying engines to Arctic Cat doesn't mean they can't still use that engine in their own sleds. In fact if they think outside of the box and make extra money that money will find it's way back to engineering. Yamaha is a very profitable company and profits have been increasing. I do believe they understand the importance the snowmobiling division in helping to keep people in the Yamaha family. I mean the whole SRX 120 deal was designed to keep people in the Yamaha family and hopefully build them into future Yamaha owners.

Now I have no idea if any of this will happen. Who knows? I do feel going forward we will see more partnerships. Arctic Cat has been doing alright, but they are such a small company compared to the other 3 it isn't even funny. They are totally the American Motors of the powersports industry. That is not a bad thing, but it gives them very little wiggle room and a large event like a big lawsuit or an engineering disaster could easily take them down.
 
Id love to see an apex motor in a lighter chassis...id trade the apex MTN in right away...
 
yamajammer76 said:
There are a lot of things going on that do point to a new sled or sleds coming from Yamaha next year. Plenty of hints are being dropped on their Facebook site and the the model names SR Viper and SR Venom have recently been trademarked. Yamaha also has some very good incentives and financing going right now to clear out inventory. That is one reason I decided to finally trade up to a new carryover 2012 Nytro XTX. I do believe releasing a new model this year would have been a disaster without doing what they can to clear out old stock. Yamaha has never operated that way and I do think they want their house in order before new models drop with little old inventory sitting around.

People who say it is out of the ordinary for Yamaha to keep producing the same models for several years need to take a look back. The first generation Phazer and Phazer II were produced for about 13 years! Granted it was a very popular model and the II was a fairly significant update, but still the basic design went on and on. Even some of the other companies who are more based around snowmobiles like Arctic Cat have kept certain models or chassis in production for many years. Yes, the current models are getting towards the end of their run, but I do feel improvements have been over the years and the current lines have never been abandoned.

The other thing I read is that Yamaha has recently consolidated many of their assembly lines in Japan and is using a lot of flex manufacturing in both engine and final assembly. They have moved assembly lines and engine plants and are now are building the engines and sleds in the same facility. You don't make changes like that if you are planning to exit the business. Granted sleds account for a tiny production run compared to the bikes, but still they have done a lot of restructuring to improve efficiency and normally a corporation doesn't spend on moving lines for products that will soon be cut.

Now back to the original rumor. I honestly believe that Arctic Cat is in trouble as far as an engine supplier is concerned. I know they have their own small engine plant that is turning out some ATV engines, but even with that they are still using imported Korean engines in many of their smaller models. I believe Suzuki wanted out of their partnership more then Arctic Cat wanted them out. Building engines specifically for snowmobiles isn't a money maker and I think Suzuki just wants to move on. Arctic Cat does build a 1000 V-twin which is a lower revving ATV engine good for about 70 HP. That engine wouldn't work worth a darn in a performance sled and engineering and manufacturing tolerances become extremely precise when we are talking about engines like the ones in Nytros and Apexes.

I suppose they could just throw a turbo on that 1000 V-twin, but how is it going to handle that sort of stress? They might be engineering all new very advanced engines, but without much to build on it will take years to get to the same level a company like Yamaha is at.

So with that said could I see Yamaha supply a performance 4 stroke engine like the Nytro engine to Arctic Cat? Sure. Profitability of the snowmobile division would increase if they can build twice the amount of engines. Last, just because Yamaha started supplying engines to Arctic Cat doesn't mean they can't still use that engine in their own sleds. In fact if they think outside of the box and make extra money that money will find it's way back to engineering. Yamaha is a very profitable company and profits have been increasing. I do believe they understand the importance the snowmobiling division in helping to keep people in the Yamaha family. I mean the whole SRX 120 deal was designed to keep people in the Yamaha family and hopefully build them into future Yamaha owners.

Now I have no idea if any of this will happen. Who knows? I do feel going forward we will see more partnerships. Arctic Cat has been doing alright, but they are such a small company compared to the other 3 it isn't even funny. They are totally the American Motors of the powersports industry. That is not a bad thing, but it gives them very little wiggle room and a large event like a big lawsuit or an engineering disaster could easily take them down.
Click to expand...
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said suzuki wanted out of the deal with cat.After the economic crisis 4 years ago suzuki really cut back production.Right now they have stopped making the sport quads even(LTR450,LTZ400,etc).The belt was tighten and its still being tighten as of now.Arctic cat was the loser in that deal.
 
low slung said:
yamajammer76 said:
There are a lot of things going on that do point to a new sled or sleds coming from Yamaha next year. Plenty of hints are being dropped on their Facebook site and the the model names SR Viper and SR Venom have recently been trademarked. Yamaha also has some very good incentives and financing going right now to clear out inventory. That is one reason I decided to finally trade up to a new carryover 2012 Nytro XTX. I do believe releasing a new model this year would have been a disaster without doing what they can to clear out old stock. Yamaha has never operated that way and I do think they want their house in order before new models drop with little old inventory sitting around.

People who say it is out of the ordinary for Yamaha to keep producing the same models for several years need to take a look back. The first generation Phazer and Phazer II were produced for about 13 years! Granted it was a very popular model and the II was a fairly significant update, but still the basic design went on and on. Even some of the other companies who are more based around snowmobiles like Arctic Cat have kept certain models or chassis in production for many years. Yes, the current models are getting towards the end of their run, but I do feel improvements have been over the years and the current lines have never been abandoned.

The other thing I read is that Yamaha has recently consolidated many of their assembly lines in Japan and is using a lot of flex manufacturing in both engine and final assembly. They have moved assembly lines and engine plants and are now are building the engines and sleds in the same facility. You don't make changes like that if you are planning to exit the business. Granted sleds account for a tiny production run compared to the bikes, but still they have done a lot of restructuring to improve efficiency and normally a corporation doesn't spend on moving lines for products that will soon be cut.

Now back to the original rumor. I honestly believe that Arctic Cat is in trouble as far as an engine supplier is concerned. I know they have their own small engine plant that is turning out some ATV engines, but even with that they are still using imported Korean engines in many of their smaller models. I believe Suzuki wanted out of their partnership more then Arctic Cat wanted them out. Building engines specifically for snowmobiles isn't a money maker and I think Suzuki just wants to move on. Arctic Cat does build a 1000 V-twin which is a lower revving ATV engine good for about 70 HP. That engine wouldn't work worth a darn in a performance sled and engineering and manufacturing tolerances become extremely precise when we are talking about engines like the ones in Nytros and Apexes.

I suppose they could just throw a turbo on that 1000 V-twin, but how is it going to handle that sort of stress? They might be engineering all new very advanced engines, but without much to build on it will take years to get to the same level a company like Yamaha is at.

So with that said could I see Yamaha supply a performance 4 stroke engine like the Nytro engine to Arctic Cat? Sure. Profitability of the snowmobile division would increase if they can build twice the amount of engines. Last, just because Yamaha started supplying engines to Arctic Cat doesn't mean they can't still use that engine in their own sleds. In fact if they think outside of the box and make extra money that money will find it's way back to engineering. Yamaha is a very profitable company and profits have been increasing. I do believe they understand the importance the snowmobiling division in helping to keep people in the Yamaha family. I mean the whole SRX 120 deal was designed to keep people in the Yamaha family and hopefully build them into future Yamaha owners.

Now I have no idea if any of this will happen. Who knows? I do feel going forward we will see more partnerships. Arctic Cat has been doing alright, but they are such a small company compared to the other 3 it isn't even funny. They are totally the American Motors of the powersports industry. That is not a bad thing, but it gives them very little wiggle room and a large event like a big lawsuit or an engineering disaster could easily take them down.
Click to expand...
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said suzuki wanted out of the deal with cat.After the economic crisis 4 years ago suzuki really cut back production.Right now they have stopped making the sport quads even(LTR450,LTZ400,etc).The belt was tighten and its still being tighten as of now.Arctic cat was the loser in that deal.
Click to expand...

WOW! i didnt even know they stopped making the ltr till i just checked it out. Now that im looking suzuki hasnt really done much in the past couple years when it comes to marine, motorsports, and even automotive compared to other brands. If suzuki does stop supplying engines then arctic cat is really in a bind. If yamaha does start supplying arctic cat their engines there is without a doubt gona be a demand for a 2-stroke power plant...
 
low slung said:
yamajammer76 said:
There are a lot of things going on that do point to a new sled or sleds coming from Yamaha next year. Plenty of hints are being dropped on their Facebook site and the the model names SR Viper and SR Venom have recently been trademarked. Yamaha also has some very good incentives and financing going right now to clear out inventory. That is one reason I decided to finally trade up to a new carryover 2012 Nytro XTX. I do believe releasing a new model this year would have been a disaster without doing what they can to clear out old stock. Yamaha has never operated that way and I do think they want their house in order before new models drop with little old inventory sitting around.

People who say it is out of the ordinary for Yamaha to keep producing the same models for several years need to take a look back. The first generation Phazer and Phazer II were produced for about 13 years! Granted it was a very popular model and the II was a fairly significant update, but still the basic design went on and on. Even some of the other companies who are more based around snowmobiles like Arctic Cat have kept certain models or chassis in production for many years. Yes, the current models are getting towards the end of their run, but I do feel improvements have been over the years and the current lines have never been abandoned.

The other thing I read is that Yamaha has recently consolidated many of their assembly lines in Japan and is using a lot of flex manufacturing in both engine and final assembly. They have moved assembly lines and engine plants and are now are building the engines and sleds in the same facility. You don't make changes like that if you are planning to exit the business. Granted sleds account for a tiny production run compared to the bikes, but still they have done a lot of restructuring to improve efficiency and normally a corporation doesn't spend on moving lines for products that will soon be cut.

Now back to the original rumor. I honestly believe that Arctic Cat is in trouble as far as an engine supplier is concerned. I know they have their own small engine plant that is turning out some ATV engines, but even with that they are still using imported Korean engines in many of their smaller models. I believe Suzuki wanted out of their partnership more then Arctic Cat wanted them out. Building engines specifically for snowmobiles isn't a money maker and I think Suzuki just wants to move on. Arctic Cat does build a 1000 V-twin which is a lower revving ATV engine good for about 70 HP. That engine wouldn't work worth a darn in a performance sled and engineering and manufacturing tolerances become extremely precise when we are talking about engines like the ones in Nytros and Apexes.

I suppose they could just throw a turbo on that 1000 V-twin, but how is it going to handle that sort of stress? They might be engineering all new very advanced engines, but without much to build on it will take years to get to the same level a company like Yamaha is at.

So with that said could I see Yamaha supply a performance 4 stroke engine like the Nytro engine to Arctic Cat? Sure. Profitability of the snowmobile division would increase if they can build twice the amount of engines. Last, just because Yamaha started supplying engines to Arctic Cat doesn't mean they can't still use that engine in their own sleds. In fact if they think outside of the box and make extra money that money will find it's way back to engineering. Yamaha is a very profitable company and profits have been increasing. I do believe they understand the importance the snowmobiling division in helping to keep people in the Yamaha family. I mean the whole SRX 120 deal was designed to keep people in the Yamaha family and hopefully build them into future Yamaha owners.

Now I have no idea if any of this will happen. Who knows? I do feel going forward we will see more partnerships. Arctic Cat has been doing alright, but they are such a small company compared to the other 3 it isn't even funny. They are totally the American Motors of the powersports industry. That is not a bad thing, but it gives them very little wiggle room and a large event like a big lawsuit or an engineering disaster could easily take them down.
Click to expand...
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said suzuki wanted out of the deal with cat.After the economic crisis 4 years ago suzuki really cut back production.Right now they have stopped making the sport quads even(LTR450,LTZ400,etc).The belt was tighten and its still being tighten as of now.Arctic cat was the loser in that deal.
Click to expand...

I think it is safe to assume that at the wholesale prices that Cat is paying Suzuki after engineering, material and labor costs it's probably at best a break even deal. Suzuki is experiencing pretty severe financial problems at the current time. There is no doubt in my mind that they sold their shares in AC back to AC in an attempt to try and generate some cash. A little here and a little there to keep going. I used to ride Cats and there wasn't a problem with the Suzuki engines. They are good engines. Something about an unproven complex high revving high performance 4 stroke built by a small company in a little factory like Arctic Cat sends shivers down my spine. Arctic Cat has never been known for their fit, finish or quality of assembly. When it comes to body work that is usually just a minor inconvenience, when it comes to engines that can be a disaster. I know they have been building some ATV engines, but things change completely when you are talking performance 4 stroke sled engines.

Making a deal with Yamaha would make sense because Yamaha also has a need for the engines so volume is greatly increased and engineering is spread out over a large product base. Yamaha is already doing business with them with the little 120 so it would not be a stretch to see this happen.

Of course Yamaha could just sit back and see what happens when Cat attempts their own 4 stroke and who knows... If it doesn't work it opens up a nice window for Yamaha to regain some market share. Remember what happened when Cat went bankrupt in the early 1980's? Yamaha picked up a nice chunk of those former Cat owners and it did propel them to #1 during the 1980's.
 
snoguzzler1 said:
Have you guys read the blog lately. Chris pretty much guarantees something is happening next model year. I'd love another Viper!!!
Click to expand...

Where does one go to find that blog?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

yamajammer76
Is Textron selling Arctic Cat to John Deere?
2
Replies
18
Views
9K
yamajammer76
yamajammer76
VX1R
Arctic Cat to Argo Pipeline
Replies
3
Views
1K
20/80
20/80
biffdotorg
$47M settlement to be paid by AC/Textron
Replies
10
Views
2K
earthling
E
biffdotorg
2024 Prototypes and Spy Photos
12 13 14
Replies
200
Views
41K
STAIN
S
A
Cat announcement on new chassis.
2 3
Replies
44
Views
9K
74Nitro
74Nitro


Back
Top