Interesting Skid Shock Spring info

[stingray719]

If you want to take the weight off the front end by adding spring to the front skid shock that is fine for off trail riding etc, but wouldn't this be a better discussion for the SR Viper Mountain section as your sleds are now XTX mountain converts correct?

A crossover falls in between trail and off trail, but with all due respect, what you are proposing will likely make a sled with incredible (if not already too much) weight transfer stock into something that closely resembles a teeter totter when you are off and on the gas.

Just wow. Your LTX has the same spring I am recommending for the XTX. Both our XTX had balance issues with the stock spring in stock form. But you know all about how an XTX handles because?.........

You might think for a minute before you criticized somebody who has tested it.

As said by another poster in this thread who has heavy steering let those that need it do it and maybe let those that have no need ignore it?

 

[TD Max]

If you want to take the weight off the front end by adding spring to the front skid shock that is fine for off trail riding etc, but wouldn't this be a better discussion for the SR Viper Mountain section as your sleds are now XTX mountain converts correct?

A crossover falls in between trail and off trail, but with all due respect, what you are proposing will likely make a sled with incredible (if not already too much) weight transfer stock into something that closely resembles a teeter totter when you are off and on the gas.

Just wow. Your LTX has the same spring I am recommending for the XTX. Both our XTX had balance issues with the stock spring in stock form. But you know all about how an XTX handles because?.........

You might think for a minute before you criticized somebody who has tested it.

As said by another poster in this thread who has heavy steering let those that need it do it and maybe let those that have no need ignore it?

I'm really not sure how you got criticize out of my statements so I bold italicize and underlined the key words in my quote above. Drumz said it first and I seconded it. Maybe we are wrong, but I did not say it was so I said LIKELY.

The LTX and RTX are coupled skids/ They rock back so far and then tie the arms together. The XTX is a non coupled skid so it just keeps going. But you already knew that.

The XTX is already reputed to be a wheelie machine. It is difficult if to corner when on the gas unless you tame the transfer. Adding more spring to the front of the skid in my opinion will make this worse. Now off trail is a different story. Y

Full disclosure: My XTX experience stems from one test ride on a demo Crosstour. When I sat on the sled it was like old times until I tried to corner under power.

YMMV...

 

[1049triple]

From my experience of 3000km riding MY xtx se with fox float front shocks(you should know that riding fox vs std shock like the cross tour have, isn't the same thing), I can tell you that even at maximum transfer, and I repeat with MY sled, it corner very safely and predictable. So, for people thinking a stronger front skid spring isn't the right choice for easier steering, what is your solution?

 

[stingray719]

I'm really not sure how you got criticize out of my statements so I bold italicize and underlined the key words in my quote above. Drumz said it first and I seconded it. Maybe we are wrong, but I did not say it was so I said LIKELY.

The LTX and RTX are coupled skids/ They rock back so far and then tie the arms together. The XTX is a non coupled skid so it just keeps going. But you already knew that.

The XTX is already reputed to be a wheelie machine. It is difficult if to corner when on the gas unless you tame the transfer. Adding more spring to the front of the skid in my opinion will make this worse. Now off trail is a different story. Y

Full disclosure: My XTX experience stems from one test ride on a demo Crosstour. When I sat on the sled it was like old times until I tried to corner under power.

YMMV...

Actually putting the 135 spring in made my sled lift the skis less than before. NOS-PRO rode it before and after the spring change and agrees, but how can this be?

Well, with most of the weight on the skis and rear skid shock the sled has little choice but to lift the front on hard acceleration. Evening out the suspension by putting in the stronger spring allows more skid transfer (rocking) while allowing the ski shocks to extend and keep them down. For those with an XTX its a quick and cheap test if it does not work for you like it did me.

 

[1049triple]

I was thinking about putting the suspension in the lower hole but this should slow down the sled because of the angle, and this is not what I want. I am out for work, but will definitely give the spring change a try. I'll give you my feedback in two weeks.

 

[1049triple]

Stingray, did you shop prices for your spring?

 

[turbo800]

My local shock guy has 140 and 160 springs. He thinks he has a used one I can try. I'll report back my results.

 

[TD Max]

Actually putting the 135 spring in made my sled lift the skis less than before. NOS-PRO rode it before and after the spring change and agrees, but how can this be?

Well, with most of the weight on the skis and rear skid shock the sled has little choice but to lift the front on hard acceleration. Evening out the suspension by putting in the stronger spring allows more skid transfer (rocking) while allowing the ski shocks to extend and keep them down. For those with an XTX its a quick and cheap test if it does not work for you like it did me.

Alrighty then

You proposed your mod

I expressed my doubts

You proved that it worked

And Bill's suspension mod was born

I'll leave it at that. Maybe I'll even try it on mine

 

[Yamadog]

While thge XTX is a wheelie machine due to the uncoupled skid even with the teeter totter I found mine to have heavier steering than my old Attack without power steering. Even off the throttle in the turns with the heavy steering it has a bad push. I tried 3 different skis and multiple carbide lengths. I think a lot has to do with how flat this sled stays in the turns. With no body roll due to heavy sway bar and very stiff valving on the Evol rc2 shocks the outside ski does not bite and the front end seems to squirt across the snow.

I have changed my shocks out to Axis on front and rear skid. I am planning to try Sting's front skid shock re alignment and have added the Hygear skid coupling system. I did get in 30 miles 2 weeks ago on it on very bad trails and it was night and day different than last season. I am hoping this Sunday to get to the UP to test a bit before I make the front skid shock change.

With a little work there is no reason this 141" chasis cannot handle as good as the LTX.

 

[cannondale27]

A higher rate spring with less preload almost always works better if the original spring was to soft and preload was turned up to compensate for the weak spring.

Also don't forget rebound of rear shock hugely affects push in the corners. When you lift the throttle in the corner the front should come down and plant the skis. If rear rebound is to slow the front won't plant till coming out of corner. Too late to corner and not push.

 

[TJ-R]

A higher rate spring with less preload almost always works better if the original spring was to soft and preload was turned up to compensate for the weak spring.

Amen to that Steve! Even more so when you start tipping the scales at 200+. All suspensions be they sled or motorcycle are set from the factory for the typical average size rider, and that is 160 to 170 lbs according to them, even lighter on Jap bikes.

It is WAY better to have a heavier spring and run less preload than to crank up a soft spring to compensate. In my field of expertise; dirt bikes, woods racing specifically, and cranking up the preload to compensate for a soft spring is a big no no. At 235 with gear, heavier rate springs are typically one of the first things I order.

Here is a link to a pdf written up by Ian at Monster Performance, he knows suspension, especially sled suspension, and he explains it pretty good in this write up. http://www.monsterperf.com/SUSP_SETUP_2012.pdf
Also one by Ross at Hygear, another suspension guru. This article has alot of info, try to zero in on the topics about sag so as to not get off of this specific topic as it really is the FIRST thing to nail down. http://www.hygearsuspension.com/snowgoer article.pdf

I'm ordering the spring Stingray picked out without any hesitation except maybe if I should go to even the next heavier one!

Braaapp!

 

[cannondale27]

X2 ! Sag/springs,rebound and then compression. Always adjust in that order and don't bother moving to next step till previous step is completed to best of ability. If done in that order you will have the best of everything without sacrificing anything.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Yes, I was curious also as to why Stingray would put in a stiffer spring if he was wheeeling too much already? I can say Stingray was right again as I witnessed him and my son change his spring out while Shagman and I were testing more clutching for altitude changes and when I took it for a ride it didn;t wheelie like it did before....weird.

 

[cannondale27]

Think of preload as stored energy like in a shotgun shell. Pack it tight and when it's used it explodes. Lay the powder on a plate and it just makes a neat show. The shock can control a slow burn but not a explosion.

 

[stingray719]

Alrighty then

You proposed your mod

I expressed my doubts

You proved that it worked

And Bill's suspension mod was born

I'll leave it at that. Maybe I'll even try it on mine

Thank you! But I believe if you check yours already has the 135 pound spring.