Larger intercooler?

[jonlafon1]

Anyone running a bigger intercooler?

998 intercoolers

shop.tommcatperformance.com

 

[Upstater57]

A larger intercooler is a good idea. This is one area where the old 1100 turbo was better. The IAT on the 1100 run much cooler when boosted. I will consider this mod if boost my new Tcat.

 

[REDLINE 1]

Bringing this one back up. Several companies making them. TD hurricane PEFI have anyone have any real world results, lower AIT’s?

 

[Upstater57]

What we would need to see is the relationship between the AIT and horsepower as the AIT goes up. I have not found any data on that topic. For example, would a bone stock 998 maintain higher HP on the trail with 20 degrees lower AIT? As I mentioned above, my old 1100 had lower AIT's on average than the 998 does. I think it had a better intercooler set up. The ROI on a larger intercooler would need to be proven. We have all bought parts that did not deliver much improvement.

 

[snowdust]

I remember tomcat posting some numbers a couple years back. I think it was close to 20hp drop at 100 degrees. Don’t quote me though. I’m usually at ~80 degrees at the end of 1000’. I figure I’m losing 10 horse. They are so pricey I haven’t added one to mine.

 

[Doc Harley]

I remember tomcat posting some numbers a couple years back. I think it was close to 20hp drop at 100 degrees. Don’t quote me though. I’m usually at ~80 degrees at the end of 1000’. I figure I’m losing 10 horse. They are so pricey I haven’t added one to mine.

What tune are you using?

 

[snowdust]

300 tune with cai under hood. I run the cat grill with frog skin so maybe it would be a hair lower with no ice on the grill and no frog skin. Since the grill is always iced up without frog skin I figured I’d be better off overall with the frog skin.

 

[Doc Harley]

It's just my opinion, it would make sense that the smaller ic's would benefit lower HP tunes. Or a little higher HP tunes for short pulls.
I'm installing one this morning, primarily to use less boostane. We'll see how that goes.

 

[Turboflash]

I suppose IF I was racing allot, I'd probably have one. Just for trail riding, don't see the need.
How much HP is needed for trail riding? In the woods you can't use what most have now. If all you're gonna do is lake race, and you need every last HP, then I suppose you need one.
When my sled was brand new, and was stock, and I wanted more HP, I didn't buy a larger IC, I bought a tune. When that tune wasn't enough anymore, I didn't buy a larger IC, I bought a bigger tune.
When the tune companies develop a tune to sell, say a 250HP, what IAT do they use to sell it as a 250HP tune? Winter cold? Summer cold? Something in between? Or, is the 250HP figure something that is calculated with correction factors? IDK.

 

[earthling]

Bringing this one back up. Several companies making them. TD hurricane PEFI have anyone have any real world results, lower AIT’s?

MCX has one as well.

What we would need to see is the relationship between the AIT and horsepower as the AIT goes up. I have not found any data on that topic. For example, would a bone stock 998 maintain higher HP on the trail with 20 degrees lower AIT? As I mentioned above, my old 1100 had lower AIT's on average than the 998 does. I think it had a better intercooler set up. The ROI on a larger intercooler would need to be proven. We have all bought parts that did not deliver much improvement.

The problem with intercoolers is that the dependency on airflow (and temp/density) makes testing them hard. On a trail, airflow is limited. What you know is that under the same conditions, more capacity (up to a point) is going to be better (lower IAT). Whether you need that capacity all the time is a different story.

We already know that performance suffers with increases in air temperatures, and to answer your question, yes, the motor will maintain higher HP in marginal conditions because the increased capacity of a larger intercooler (vs small one in same conditions) will provide greater insurance against climbing intake temps because that is the way it works, more capacity means longer run times at lower temperatures, offsetting IAT increases. But, to your point, is this a pragmatic consideration for trail riding.. maybe, its an insurance policy for sure but I would argue a radiator would do more to improve trail-ability than an intercooler. (at the expense of weight). If you are only doing the occasional short runs (1000') then IAT probably doesn't become a factor unless they are back to back or it is warm out (decreasing efficiency of the intercooler). MCX (and I am not promoting them, simply filling in a gap where it is an option) used to have charts showing the efficiency of their intercooler. You might want to reach out to them (in sweden, mcx.se).

 

[1nc 2000]

When intake air temps go over 90f the tune starts to pull back on timing.

 

[Doc Harley]

MCX has one as well.

View attachment 174438


The problem with intercoolers is that the dependency on airflow (and temp/density) makes testing them hard. On a trail, airflow is limited. What you know is that under the same conditions, more capacity (up to a point) is going to be better (lower IAT). Whether you need that capacity all the time is a different story.

We already know that performance suffers with increases in air temperatures, and to answer your question, yes, the motor will maintain higher HP in marginal conditions because the increased capacity of a larger intercooler (vs small one in same conditions) will provide greater insurance against climbing intake temps because that is the way it works, more capacity means longer run times at lower temperatures, offsetting IAT increases. But, to your point, is this a pragmatic consideration for trail riding.. maybe, its an insurance policy for sure but I would argue a radiator would do more to improve trail-ability than an intercooler. (at the expense of weight). If you are only doing the occasional short runs (1000') then IAT probably doesn't become a factor unless they are back to back or it is warm out (decreasing efficiency of the intercooler). MCX (and I am not promoting them, simply filling in a gap where it is an option) used to have charts showing the efficiency of their intercooler. You might want to reach out to them (in sweden, mcx.se).

I have, it's the best value in snowmobiling. They have an additional injector port they need to block off and you'd have to reroute the Bov, as theirs is included with IC and cannot be altered.
Talked back and forth with them. Shipping is the other situation that would need to be resolved.

 

[KnappAttack]

The larger front mounted intercooler is worth about 20F degree drop in the real world on the trail, it really depends on the outside air temp, speed and airflow. Works best at cold temps. In theory it will maintain HP longer into the pull and make more power longer. The larger the tune, the hotter the intake gets, and it will get hot quick with std. hardware. Gets to the point where bigger tunes do nothing more than the smaller tunes if the intake gets hot enough. I've seen 240HP run with, our even outrun 300HP tunes when things are not perfectly setup.

The stock turbo is small, and for trail use its pretty much stuck at about 300 HP output on the stock engine setup, IF you have the proper support hardware and fuel to support even that. More boost and bigger tunes don't always make more actual HP if things are not "just right".

A cooler intake helps to make power, so do other factors I won't mention here.... There is much more to it than just clicking up a tune or two with different factors that come into play.

 

[jonlafon1]

I put one on my 2022 when it was brand new.. They help for sure.. I think when its REALLY cold out you BETTER have good fuel with a BIGGER intercooler! For trail riding or stock HP its a bit overkill..

 

[sideshowBob]

JM.02c

An intercooler needs a measurement of time to cool the air passing through it...the faster the air flows through the cooler the less time it has to cool the charge so a bigger cooler becomes more effective for the heat transfer.
Although I feel an intercooler is effective and necessary for our turbo sleds, I think rather then increasing the cooler's size, first its more important to ensure the intake air that the cooler is temperature managing is as cool as possible. In the snowmobile world we are very fortunate to have access to cool ,normally well below freezing temperature, and dense air for our engines air intakes to use.
IMO a true cold air intake to feed the air passing through the intake system is the simplest and most effective way to control intake temps and enhance or maintain engine performance. A cold air intake with a little ram air effect is even better.
For my application I have chosen to go with a true cold air intake, enhanced engine cooling capacity, and full venting to keep all temps as low as possible.
Works for me