LTX 137 lack of transfer..Reasoning/Solution?

[Motorhead]

Here’s my feedback on my 137” Travis,
I’m at 215, so sit in with spring set on low and shocks on 2 all around is about 2-3”, just about perfect.

Spring set on low and shocks on 1 all around give me 3-4” of sit in, a bit too much for riding whereas it bottoms out on bigger bumps, while set on 2 nothing will bottom it out. Shock setting 1 is very good for times when lower suspension characteristics are needed, like lowering chassis for better cooling on hard pack trail days.

Now let’s get to transfer. I have heard much about the lack of transfer and agree that if one wants transfer the limiter straps have to be set on the longest setting and transfer rod should be set on thinnest setting. Once that is done this chassis will allow for 3-4” of ski lift, unless the snow conditions turn to a soft sticky snow, which then allows the track to dig down, and thus, much more ski lift.
But with the limiters out all the way, the sleds handling characteristics are diminished.
So that is where I find myself, between the good handling but hard steering second from last limiter setting, and longest limiter setting for easier steering and good transfer.

When I say good transfer, I do mean good. This thing does come out of the hole nice, and that may be because of what you were eluding too, my heavier weight of 215 lbs.

Good luck with your R&D!

 

[cannondale27]

Here’s my feedback on my 137” Travis,
I’m at 215, so sit in with spring set on low and shocks on 2 all around is about 2-3”, just about perfect.

Spring set on low and shocks on 1 all around give me 3-4” of sit in, a bit too much for riding whereas it bottoms out on bigger bumps, while set on 2 nothing will bottom it out. Shock setting 1 is very good for times when lower suspension characteristics are needed, like lowering chassis for better cooling on hard pack trail days.

Now let’s get to transfer. I have heard much about the lack of transfer and agree that if one wants transfer the limiter straps have to be set on the longest setting and transfer rod should be set on thinnest setting. Once that is done this chassis will allow for 3-4” of ski lift, unless the snow conditions turn to a soft sticky snow, which then allows the track to dig down, and thus, much more ski lift.
But with the limiters out all the way, the sleds handling characteristics are diminished.
So that is where I find myself, between the good handling but hard steering second from last limiter setting, and longest limiter setting for easier steering and good transfer.

When I say good transfer, I do mean good. This thing does come out of the hole nice, and that may be because of what you were eluding too, my heavier weight of 215 lbs.

Good luck with your R&D!

Your measurements are done on a suspension that is tight against the top out nubs without rider even on 1. Therefore while the measurements you got are great. ( better than mine at 145) They are not normal. There should be a good 2 in static sag with no rider. This would put sled in a much more level stance instead of rear end high. Huge benefits everywhere but yes people freak out over a couple inches of Freeplay or as some say slop in suspension. Really it's supposed to be there and I believe Cat/Yamaha got rid of static sag because of public perception that it was a bad thing.

 

[VX1R]

I think the Hygear spring is not softer, just bent on end. I bought one & will know first ride if it works.

Steve...the torsion springs that I got from Hygear were a smaller diameter than the stock LT-X springs in addition to being bent or re-arched on one end of the spring. When you have a chance get out your caliper and check out the diameter of your new Hygear springs vs. the stock springs and report back.

I don't totally understand the reason for the stiff springs that Yamaha has decided to use in these skids nor do I understand all of the geometry of the skid (I'm kinda slow, eh) but I do know that I like the results that I had with the HyGear springs in my skid.

Sit in sag, weight transfer, and steering effort have all improved.

I'm anxious and curious to see what Travis has brewing in his devious mind. If what he comes up with works as well or better than the Hygear springs I'd like to give it a try.

 

[**sj**]

Don...the spring isnt stiff...its the softest available...and like I said....its softer than what it replace from years ago whenthe suspension was softer and with "sit in"...

My idea was exactly what KRM said...but theres one hitch...a big hole in the rail there....this is where the ingenuity comes in!

Ive motivated travis to get going on this...impressing him (I hope) with the need for this....once he see's Im not crazy...and have done my research...he will have the piece we talked about....IMHO this could be the BOP biggest seller!!!!!!

 

[cannondale27]

A good test of the spring vs geometry theories is to just disconnect 1 torsion. That's extreme and not realistic but it's a enlightening and valid test. Swing the short end of one spring past adjuster and put long end up out of way and set sled down on flat surface.

 

[cannondale27]

Don...the spring isnt stiff...its the softest available...and like I said....its softer than what it replace from years ago whenthe suspension was softer and with "sit in"...

My idea was exactly what KRM said...but theres one hitch...a big hole in the rail there....this is where the ingenuity comes in!

Ive motivated travis to get going on this...impressing him (I hope) with the need for this....once he see's Im not crazy...and have done my research...he will have the piece we talked about....IMHO this could be the BOP biggest seller!!!!!!

I want it because I believe in making the shocks do the work. Not the springs. Low is fast as long as suspension can handle it. Think Trophy truck. My stock truck towers over a Trophy truck but I wouldn't take my truck more than a ft in the air! ZPS. Zero Preload Suspension. It's the future without a doubt.

 

[**sj**]

I want it because I believe in making the shocks do the work. Not the springs. Low is fast as long as suspension can handle it. Think Trophy truck. My stock truck towers over a Trophy truck but I wouldn't take my truck more than a ft in the air! ZPS. Zero Preload Suspension. It's the future without a doubt.

As I hunted for springs...I realised that wasn't the issue...the geometry changed! this was your info and my epiphany .....the hygear mod is a bandaid I feel now...

Sit in is almost non existent ...especially for us 160-185 pounders ...we are sitting on top of the suspension instead of in it...it takes some to get it to budge...I always thought you should be already a quarter to a third into it optimally...its amazing what a small change in geometry can do /did! they even threw the softest spring at it now are out of tuning range..but like sai...its a geometry issue...

Im my head I see two block halves sandwiching the rail to form a mount for the lower scissor....recreating the pre bent = set in!

 

[cannondale27]

As I hunted for springs...I realised that wasn't the issue...the geometry changed! this was your info and my epiphany .....the hygear mod is a bandaid I feel now...

Sit in is almost non existent ...especially for us 160-185 pounders ...we are sitting on top of the suspension instead of in it...it takes some to get it to budge...I always thought you should be already a quarter to a third into it optimally...its amazing what a small change in geometry can do /did! they even threw the softest spring at it now are out of tuning range..but like sai...its a geometry issue...

Im my head I see two block halves sandwiching the rail to form a mount for the lower scissor....recreating the pre bent = set in!

Would need the top out nubs and transfer blocks moved also. Could be done though.

 

[hibshman25]

What 2012 cat model would have the 137 skid with torsion springs. If i'm correct it is the LXR models....but pictures and parts fiche show the rear shock being a coil over shock and no torsion springs.

These lxr models with the coil over shock appear to have different rear arm configuration compared to the present day 137 skid, but maybe I'm not looking at the correct set up.

 

[cannondale27]

Is that a 141” your looking at?

 

[cannondale27]

Did they even have a 137 back then?

 

[**sj**]

No 129. What's top out nubs? Transfer blocks ...hmm angle would change i guess so point of contact is an issue

 

[hibshman25]

I really dont know. SJ referenced 2012 so assumed there was a 137 with torsion springs.

 

[STAIN]

I have a 2014 Viper LTX. I felt it was too stiff. I weigh 210lbs 12oz. I bought the Hygear springs and had a revalve done. It was better but I was still running on the softest setting and felt it could be softer still. I had no suspension "sag" with rider on board. After some conversations with the folks at Hygear this is what I did.
This is the original angle between the short and long les of my rear torsion spring--@80 degrees

I then heated the base of the long leg and bent it to @ 110 degrees

the result was a much softer ride, I can now run my blocks on #2 setting and I get about 1/3 of suspension travel "sag" with rider aboard.
I have run it like this for about 200 miles.

 

[cannondale27]

I have a 2014 Viper LTX. I felt it was too stiff. I weigh 210lbs 12oz. I bought the Hygear springs and had a revalve done. It was better but I was still running on the softest setting and felt it could be softer still. I had no suspension "sag" with rider on board. After some conversations with the folks at Hygear this is what I did.
This is the original angle between the short and long les of my rear torsion spring--@80 degrees

I then heated the base of the long leg and bent it to @ 110 degrees

the result was a much softer ride, I can now run my blocks on #2 setting and I get about 1/3 of suspension travel "sag" with rider aboard.
I have run it like this for about 200 miles.

I did that with the softer Cat spring and still not enough. Talking Static sag. Without rider.