mad at the xtx, rear supension setup??

[Groomer08]

So i rode it today. 100miles, good frozen groom, to no snow g outs, to soft sloppy,back to groom
Fiddled with shocks all day, almost back to where i started.
So im fairly happy with the front, and i understand whats going on there to tune.
Rear is like a pogo stick,not using travel at all.
Skis were pushing on hard frozen trail, no body roll. Lowered center shock preload 1/4", better, but now on a hard g out, it bottoms. Added air to rear, no bottom, but it uses less travel. Rides horrible

So whats bottoming? Center shock or rear?
Front rc2s at 60 maine, 100evol.
Rear air at 150.

Maybe add a 1/8" to center preload, and add air to front main for more ski pressure instead?

 

[Yamadog]

Groomer I loosened my center shock to 0 prrload when off ground 120#'s rear shock and pulled imiter down 1 hole. Was OK till I coupled the rear and went with axis rear shock I also unlooked the sway bar to get roll and outside ski bite.

I was running Simmons skis with 2 - 8" bars on each steering was a bear but would turn.

 

[FAMILYMAN]

150 seams to much? Mine likes 100


2014 viper, mpi
2009 Phazer 144"

 

[Yamadog]

Yes 150 way to high I am 190 + gear and 110 bottomed 120 okay 130 would launch me over the bars

 

[Yamadog]

I never ran at 150 in rear would think that is so stiff the only thing mong is the front shock and there is no way you are bottoming it out just feels that way cause all the front travel us used up

 

[stingray719]

So i rode it today. 100miles, good frozen groom, to no snow g outs, to soft sloppy,back to groom
Fiddled with shocks all day, almost back to where i started.
So im fairly happy with the front, and i understand whats going on there to tune.
Rear is like a pogo stick,not using travel at all.
Skis were pushing on hard frozen trail, no body roll. Lowered center shock preload 1/4", better, but now on a hard g out, it bottoms. Added air to rear, no bottom, but it uses less travel. Rides horrible

So whats bottoming? Center shock or rear?
Front rc2s at 60 maine, 100evol.
Rear air at 150.

Maybe add a 1/8" to center preload, and add air to front main for more ski pressure instead?

Been there done that XTX has wrong skid shock spring, my XTX is like riding a big ole couch now and steers like power steering. See this thread http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/interesting-skid-shock-spring-info.131147/

 

[tapex_07]

Adding more spring rate to the center shock will INCREASE the push in the corners. But will definitely make it feel like alot lighter steering.
Like Yamadog said, try pulling the limiter down one hole at a time and lowering your rear float to the 120+/- range. I'm 190lb with gear, 125psi in the rear, up 5 threads from stock, the limiter pulled up 2 holes, and the fronts at 63psi in my fronts. Only bottomed a couple times on big whoops, holds well in the corners (still messing with the center and limiter), and holds the skis 3-5" on launches. I think the added coupling setup is the way to go if your mostly trail riding.

 

[stingray719]

Adding more spring rate to the center shock will INCREASE the push in the corners. But will definitely make it feel like alot lighter steering.
Like Yamadog said, try pulling the limiter down one hole at a time and lowering your rear float to the 120+/- range. I'm 190lb with gear, 125psi in the rear, up 5 threads from stock, the limiter pulled up 2 holes, and the fronts at 63psi in my fronts. Only bottomed a couple times on big whoops, holds well in the corners (still messing with the center and limiter), and holds the skis 3-5" on launches. I think the added coupling setup is the way to go if your mostly trail riding.

Your assumption is that the skid shock spring is near correct to start. The skid shock spring is so weak you are running on the back of the skid and the skis. Balancing out a sled doesn't increase push until the center shock lifts the skis, mine wheelies less now than before. Or all the people that tried it and liked it are wrong

 

[Groomer08]

Stingray, i was planning on running your setup until you mentioned your steering was heavy. My steering is light, and the ski pushes because theres not enough weight on it. Granted this is on tuner skis, and im sure the simmons will give more bite.
Also, could be that shock bottoming because its so week. In which case stronger spring would enable me to run less preload.
Going to tune it in a bit more this weekend, get the simmons skis on it, then its order a spring or rear shocks. One way or another, its going to ride like a couch!!!!!

 

[drumz11]

Unfortunately running great shocks like those RC2's in the front is going to really show the weakness of the stock skid shock valving and limited adjustment. Pulling up the limiters some helps with the push and cornering on the not so great cornering 141. Good skis, and I don't mean tuners, helps a lot. I never had a heavy steering issue either with or without aftermarket skis and shocks, but it is a 100% better ride with aftermarket skis and shocks.

 

[Yamadog]

Stingray, i was planning on running your setup until you mentioned your steering was heavy. My steering is light, and the ski pushes because theres not enough weight on it. Granted this is on tuner skis, and im sure the simmons will give more bite.
Also, could be that shock bottoming because its so week. In which case stronger spring would enable me to run less preload.
Going to tune it in a bit more this weekend, get the simmons skis on it, then its order a spring or rear shocks. One way or another, its going to ride like a couch!!!!!

Groomer did you buy simmons or did you have a pr? I ran Simmons on mine last season and the steering was almost unbearable!!!!! The Simmons ski is flat with 2 wear bars on the outer edges. The design of the steering knuckles cause the skis to roll onto edge when turning so you are actually lifting the wieght of the sled on the outside edge of the ski when you turn. With the simmons on sitting on blacktop or in the shop I cannot turn the bars without actually jerking on them. I put the stock skis back on with center keel and dually 8" bars on them and can turn bars with 1 finger cause the ski rocks onto 1 of the bars and pivots on the mild hump in the bar.

Also make sure you have the Cat mounts for them. I converted a pair that I had from an old RX-1 and called simmons ordering the mounts for a 2014 viper. They did not work and I ended up having to use the rubbers out of set of skis from an old Polaris Fusion I fixed after a friend crashed it.

After all the shock and suspension mods I have done I am going to try them again this weekend and see if I like them cause I still have a terrible push going into a corner at 40 or more I cannot hold a line on or off the gas she just plows straight into the trees.

 

[stingray719]

Unfortunately running great shocks like those RC2's in the front is going to really show the weakness of the stock skid shock valving and limited adjustment. Pulling up the limiters some helps with the push and cornering on the not so great cornering 141. Good skis, and I don't mean tuners, helps a lot. I never had a heavy steering issue either with or without aftermarket skis and shocks, but it is a 100% better ride with aftermarket skis and shocks.

"Heavy steering" is subjective though. Stock XTX Viper compared to a Nytro is not so bad, but XTX Viper compared to a 2014 M8 is awful! I had an 2014 M8 while the girlfriend got her XTX Viper last year that is why I knew this was supposed to handle better. Like I said before if you like the heavy front feeling of the Nytro by all means leave it be, but if you want the sled balanced so it steers better and pushes less change out the front skid shock spring.

 

[Yamadog]

Oh by the way I have a couch with a broken spring you may already feel like your riding on that couch!!!!!

 

[Yamadog]

Sting I am spending all day in the shop tomorrow getting things sorted on all 3 sleds for the weekend. #1 is the shock relocation and then putting the Simmons back on it.

 

[Groomer08]

stingray, i have no issues with the steering "weight" and if i did, its a easy adjustment to fix.
I have a issue with push, AND the rear suspension seems like its doing nothing. i rode a 14 xtx that was super plush last year. wtf did they do to this thing???
when i get aggressive with the trail, i have to hug the gascap like its my job, my knees are hanging off the sides of the sled. and the bite is BARELY what i want.
my nytro xtx had dual 6" cutting carbides on simmons and a low stance, it was point and SHOOT!(think i pulled limiter up 1 hole)
(also, my steering may feel lighter as evol rc2s are a lil shorter then float 3s, so that MAY have taken some of my pressure away.
maybe the simmons will pick it back up(taller saddle?)
it rubs the lotion on its skin this weekend, or else i will wrench on it MONDAY!!%%%%$^