MS17 with SQ 2.5” questions

[Motorhead]

Last years tune MS16 3bar, BOV. 2017 LTX-LE, 1 1/4 track, 144 middle studs.
RPMs @ 8950-9050 with all stock springs and added washer to stock tip weight, for a total of 73.9 grams.
Also have run the Daltons weights but found that I needed extra 1.5 - 2 grams for same WOT rpm.
This is with the XS825 and a 35/39 helix wrapped at 6/1. Straight 35 same wrap increases WOT rpms.

This year’s tune, same everything except for MS17 with the SQ2.5”.

Added weight to my clutch arms because of the added 15 hp.
Started out with Daltons at 76.3 grams. 8300 -8400 rpm.
Daltons all the way down to 73.1 grams. 8600 or so rpms.

Put a set of stock arm weights in for 72.7 grams, 1.25 grams less then what was on the MS16 tune, and went to the straight 35 helix with same wrap. 8750-8850.

Why is this not pulling more weight then what was on the for the stock weights ? I am told that I need 9000 rpm for this tune.

Interested in hearing thoughts concerning, and what your set up may be for the same tune and muffler combo!

 

[number1kyster]

Boost leak?

 

[KnappAttack]

Check your PM's.

 

[possessed]

Boost leak?

I don’t think so there is two of us having the same problems and we are getting 18.2 on the Gage plus we both had the same tune at a week a part at the same place ???

 

[Motorhead]

Yes, both of us went from a strong running perfect rpm MS16 tune to MS17 tunes with SQ2.5” that can’t pull rpms with much less weight. My buddy added a header to his MS16 tune last season but decided against it for this year, so his 17 tune was mistakenly a Header tune. He added the header and still pulled no rpms. Tunes seem super rich or maybe pulling timing. Without AFR readings or logging info we are searching for answers. We are trying to figure out what is happening and why to both of us at once!

We both added new plugs this season and gapped them at the lesser .020” gap for the first time!
If 91 or 93 Octane is not enough, would they act like this?

Will change the gaps and add some Octane booster before my next day ride I guess, and hope that my revs with stock weights and springs causes an Big time over rev!

Anyone with these tunes, does the warmer weather kill these tunes? Have been on 4 rides playing with weights and helix, went from teens to high 30s and all seemed the same.

Have been told that I need 9000 for this tune, and knock lights at 8400 while under full load can or will happen!

Would have to drill out some stock rivet weight at this point whereas 72.7 is still too heavy!

 

[DMCTurbo]

Did you give TD a call? The best investment when tuning these sleds in my opinion is purchasing the flasher and data logging.

 

[max rolph]

soo when you took clutch appart... did you turn engine clockwise??? or have you blown a belt??? if so you have skipped a tooth on your cam timing chain... i had same thing happen and was chasing lost rpm for half the year and only when TD went to do my cams for stage 6 did we find it was off by one tooth.... ran fine everywhere else but would not pull RPM.8800 max.... i just got chance to read more and i'll bet you a quart of bustane that you have turned engine backwards.... it is bang on what happened to mine.

 

[Fleecer]

So did you change tune, or simply bolt on SQ 2.5 to make it MS-17?
Are your Dalton DTAY-1s?
What color springs front/back?
What gear ratio?
Stock rollers in secondary?

MS-17 is too much power for stock weights, don't waste your time with them.

The Dalton weights will be your best ticket. Put a Dalton blk/grn primary spring. Since the Daltons carry a lot of tip weight that reverse helix will be too much on the 39. Go to stock 35 with Dalton blk/tan at 50, or blk/org at 80. If you are a light rider you can run stock yellow at 60.

MS-17 with a header is a violent tune. Not much sniffs it in my neck of the woods. If the info above doesn't put you in the ballpark of you have other issues that will need to be looked at.

 

[fourload]

I run 72.5 grams on stock weights with a 35/39 and a xs825 with a orange TP spring @ 40. On Powertrail SM it runs @ 89-9000 all day. You are way down on power. Maybe recheck your plugs or your fuel pump can’t keep up any more.

 

[Motorhead]

Did you give TD a call? The best investment when tuning these sleds in my opinion is purchasing the flasher and data logging.

Yes finally got through and no solid answers. Checked their computer to make sure proper icon MS17 was sent to installing dealer which was prior to the start of season. Whereas it is happening to two of us at same time, and he got the header tune by mistake, I thought the same for mine, but not the case. I got the correct tune. TD said hundreds are running this tune without this problem. So I am trying to figure out why just the two of us.

Yes had we the flasher and data log it would certainly tell us what I guess is A very rich condition. Side panel and ski exhaust stain are darker then other tunes and do not clean off!

 

[number1kyster]

I hope you get it figured out.

IMO, MS16 is a very under rated tune. The 2 bar version is probably the best bang for your buck out there. Tune, BOV, 825 belt, and minor clutching changes put you in the zone.

 

[Motorhead]

So did you change tune, or simply bolt on SQ 2.5 to make it MS-17?
Are your Dalton DTAY-1s?
What color springs front/back?
What gear ratio?
Stock rollers in secondary?

MS-17 is too much power for stock weights, don't waste your time with them.

The Dalton weights will be your best ticket. Put a Dalton blk/grn primary spring. Since the Daltons carry a lot of tip weight that reverse helix will be too much on the 39. Go to stock 35 with Dalton blk/tan at 50, or blk/org at 80. If you are a light rider you can run stock yellow at 60.

MS-17 with a header is a violent tune. Not much sniffs it in my neck of the woods. If the info above doesn't put you in the ballpark of you have other issues that will need to be looked at.

Package deal. Free upgrade tune from MS16 to MS17 when I purchased the SQ2.5” from them. Local dealer installed the flash.
Dalton were the DTA1. Started with over 76 grams for. 8300-8400 rpms, XS belt and 35/39 helix
Down to 73.1 for 8500-8600 or so.
Installed stock 72.7 gram weights and changed helix to straight 35 this week. 8750-8850 rpm.
Stock springs on both with 22T, so 22/41 gearing.

Yes I agree about stock weights, but had to try and get the revs up. Probably the Dalton at about 71 would give me the same.

New rollers, weights and pins on all, and yes my secondary rollers were updated to Cat Torlon in 18 and still look great.

I ran this same combo with MS16, so I figured a bit more weight and I should be close! But I was wrong.

What I did differently this season was cut my TB spacers, added the brass 15 mm rollers and gapped my plugs to .20” for the first time.

So shall add some Octane boost to the 93 and try stock gap??

 

[Motorhead]

I hope you get it figured out.

IMO, MS16 is a very under rated tune. The 2 bar version is probably the best bang for your buck out there. Tune, BOV, 825 belt, and minor clutching changes put you in the zone.

Yes I was in that MS16 zone with both the 2 bar and 3 bar version with BOV for years. Strong lean tune!

 

[Motorhead]

I run 72.5 grams on stock weights with a 35/39 and a xs825 with a orange TP spring @ 40. On Powertrail SM it runs @ 89-9000 all day. You are way down on power. Maybe recheck your plugs or your fuel pump can’t keep up any more.

Yes loved that stock spring and weight set up with the 16 tunes. Low smooth engagement but wow factor once 6K is reached, all the way up to 9000 or so.

 

[Fleecer]

Package deal. Free upgrade tune from MS16 to MS17 when I purchased the SQ2.5” from them. Local dealer installed the flash.
Dalton were the DTA1. Started with over 76 grams for. 8300-8400 rpms, XS belt and 35/39 helix
Down to 73.1 for 8500-8600 or so.
Installed stock 72.7 gram weights and changed helix to straight 35 this week. 8750-8850 rpm.
Stock springs on both with 22T, so 22/41 gearing.

Yes I agree about stock weights, but had to try and get the revs up. Probably the Dalton at about 71 would give me the same.

New rollers, weights and pins on all, and yes my secondary rollers were updated to Cat Torlon in 18 and still look great.

I ran this same combo with MS16, so I figured a bit more weight and I should be close! But I was wrong.

What I did differently this season was cut my TB spacers, added the brass 15 mm rollers and gapped my plugs to .20” for the first time.

So shall add some Octane boost to the 93 and try stock gap??

As long as plugs were correctly gapped to .020 you should be fine. I would try the octane boost, pending the gas in the tank is good?

That tune with a stock fuel pump should not run rich pending all components are on point.