klr650r
Extreme
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 70
- Reaction score
- 32
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- 193
- Location
- New Brunswick
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2018 Yamaha Sidewinder R-TX LE 50th
So it’s time I do a bit of a write up on my sled issues after reading through ROCKERDAN 's
Cat DNA Strikes again! -CHAINCASE TENSIONER ROLLER WHEEL FAIL post.
Just a bit of background, my uncle/riding buddy has been on a Procross since 2012, so we know or we've had most if not all of the problems with this chassis. And we run hard, so the problems come quicker and more often than not happen to us first, local dealers end up stumped.
I’ll admit Dan's post kinda scared me a bit. When I saw the crack in the chain case, that’s just horrible. Problems will happen inside a chain case, but when either side of the protective cover is damaged. It’s a big job (In my book anyways)
This will be a long post so bare with me lol.
Rewind to start of this season. During my initial service this year (decided to do it myself because I don’t trust a dealer to “really” check stuff) I found 3 major items.
-CHAIN CASE AREA, screw was backed out of the tensioner, when I popped open the case the screw fell to the bottom. The roller had been going crooked for a little bit. There was not a whole lot of tension on the chain (approx. 2000 miles since last adjustment)
-BRAKE SIDE COG SHAFT, bearing was seized, the shaft had been eaten up quite a bit. It needed to come out anyways as I was changing my track. Luckily since we’ve been on the chassis since 2012 on and off, we had a spare shaft.
-FRONT SKID SHOCK, lower cross shaft on the skid was badly worn. Yamaha was back ordered, needed to get from CAT dealer. (who had 6 on the shelf lol)
At the time of the service I added Red Loctite instead of the factory Loctite on the tensioner’s roller.
I also added 680 bearing retainers TIGHT against the circlip, to gain the most “meat” possible on the shaft. It was so tight I had a hard time getting the circlip on the bottom gears of the chain case. KEEP THIS IN MIND. (was a bad move on my part, which, I knew better)
Fast forward to last 300 miles or so. Bad intermittent vibration (I say bad, because I don’t like any vibrations), most people would have attributed it to trail conditions. But I had an uneasy feeling. Probably because I’ve seen how these things are built. I had a sneaking suspicion It was my brake side bearing again. Ugh… Had a small trip planned…though it would hold. So I went along with it. The next runs out the vibration would not be felt for the start of the ride but would return latter. After my 520 miles 2 day trip, I knew the problem got worst. The vibration happened less often but with a bit more intensity.
NOW the major reason that race is turning is the tolerance for the inner race is not good from the factory, it’s way too loose. I imagine some smart guy made it like that so you wouldn't need a puller for simple services. But this is way too loose.
Secondly, the circlip should be 1/16 or 1/8 closer to the end of the shaft. I think some body flex and maybe a bit of wrong sizing in the shaft makes the bearing naturally want to ride out. When you look at the pictures of my bad shaft right close to the circlip the shaft is still good.
When it comes to our groups, the slow riders do not have a problem. So, I think the track tension in most cases is enough to hold the inner race in place. I think long fast trails, 90mph plus is what starts the bearing moving. I would assume the track whip at higher speeds sets that race free, once it starts turning it doesn’t matter what you try to do. It’s only going to get worst.
So I opened it up. Thinking I should still be in time to just take off the bearing add 680 Loctite and put it all back together. That 680 stuff hold big time (or so I though). The body flex combined with the circlip being to far in, broke off my 680 compound and it ran where it wanted to run, AGAIN. ...And it ground down just enough shaft to make me uncomfortable with using the shaft again.
So for you guys wanting to use the stock shaft without some kind of mechanical retainer for the inner race. Make sure you assemble the chain case side completely before adding your 680 and the brake side bearing. That way the bearing will end up way closer to where it “wants” to be. Kind of hanging over the edge closer to the splines. If you set it there it shouldn’t move. And you should just barely be able to put the brake circlip on. Keep in mind, that 680 compound cures quick so act fast once its out of the bottle. In my opinion a mechanical option would be better. I've seen posts with set screws inside the shaft, or marring the shaft so bad the bearing can't turn once it's pressed in.
With the bearing off, I could just feel the mark where the shaft was worn down with my nail. Dan's post scared me enough to warrant taking out my tensioner to weld the bolts lol.
So…since I was opening the chain case anyways. Time to fix this junk to my liking. I took out the cog shaft.
So I went to my local machine shop with a knowledge of what I want, some of his knowledge in the mix. As well from some inspiration from one of the posts I’ve seen. I’d give him props but I can’t find the post. Here are his pictures.
So we started by making an end plug, this would help later in the lath anyways as our center hole. When making your plug consider going in deep, well beyond the backside seal’s race. I went too short with only 1.5” in, when we added weld to build up the bearing race area it twisted the brake splines ever so slightly. We fixed it, but it took some time that would have easily been avoided with a deeper plug and a bit less heat (keep in mind the shaft is back ordered, here in Canada anyways, and I screwed up 2 on a 2017 sled. Same shaft on all Procross, same issues since 2012)
So now we build up with weld to be cut back down to a tighter spec later. I want a press fit, but not so bad that I need a strong puller later (but I want it no need one). So, we played around with this till I was satisfied.
Next the spacer for the circlip, I want the bearing to be in the optimal location for two things. First, I want the race to ride where it want’s to go naturally, in my case where it ground up my shaft twice. And secondly since I’m going to lock in my rotor later, I want it to be as centered as possible in my caliper.
The outer lock is so the circlip can not “pop out” was a nice little touch from my machinist. It even has a highly pleasant click when it locks around the clip and require just a bit of force to remove again.
Lastly the cap. This part is the most important for the setup I wanted. It makes it so my race is not only pressed in at a tighter spec, but it is pinched in between my new spacer and the rotor. It should go anywhere nor should it turn. I installed an M12 bolt with Loctite. I made the cap hollow area deep enough to work with or without my added spacer and even a bit more. I can add washers inside if I want to limit pressure or make the rotor floating again.
I sort of wished I had gone reverse threading here. I would worry that the bolt might want to turn especially if the heat from the brake is transmitted to the shaft and loosens the Loctite. The bolt I used is long enough that it can’t come out before contacting the brake guard, however.
When tidying up the chain case side, I left the stock upper gear as it was still in great shape. I had my doubts, since I started using another type of Oil in my chain case. And the replacement unit I got looked like it was marred on a shaft before shipping out. The hell is up with that.
I also added a thin washer behind the stock washer to push the gear outward (toward reverse gear) to remove some slop from the assembly.
Have no idea where that washer came from (PROBABLY BRP STUFF), but it was in my snowmobile bin and it was just the right size. I just wanted added area for the drive gears to rest on…and if I wear the inner bushing to hopefully get as much gear touching as possible. (My uncles’ 2018 had a fall out of gear issue/failure because the bushing went)
Anyways I hope this is the end all be all for my brake side bearing. I’ll need way more testing to confirm. I may have 40 miles on the setup now. It’ll be once less thing to worry about. Still scared as hell of that chain case. But wtv. This sled has been kind of a love hate relationship from the beginning. I’ve seen/ mocked the mostly unchanged design of some of the major pieces (4 main bearings, chaincase, TCL) for the longest time. But then I gave in and went to the Procross chassis. The chassis in my mind with the best trail prowess and handling of the current 4 manufacturers.
And to be honest I can compare it to my marriage. Some days are tough, some days I just want to throw it all away and go back to something more reliable. But then I RAIL HER INTO A HIGH SPEED CORNER. …And I remember why I’m stickin’ it out. Lol
Plus the grass doesn’t seem to be greener on any other side. Looks like the 4stroke 129” offerings are few and far between. The sleds you could get in 129” in 2019 are either 2stroke or lack a proper suspension package. I’ll have to see what’s going to be what in 2020.
Cat DNA Strikes again! -CHAINCASE TENSIONER ROLLER WHEEL FAIL post.
Just a bit of background, my uncle/riding buddy has been on a Procross since 2012, so we know or we've had most if not all of the problems with this chassis. And we run hard, so the problems come quicker and more often than not happen to us first, local dealers end up stumped.
I’ll admit Dan's post kinda scared me a bit. When I saw the crack in the chain case, that’s just horrible. Problems will happen inside a chain case, but when either side of the protective cover is damaged. It’s a big job (In my book anyways)
This will be a long post so bare with me lol.
Rewind to start of this season. During my initial service this year (decided to do it myself because I don’t trust a dealer to “really” check stuff) I found 3 major items.
-CHAIN CASE AREA, screw was backed out of the tensioner, when I popped open the case the screw fell to the bottom. The roller had been going crooked for a little bit. There was not a whole lot of tension on the chain (approx. 2000 miles since last adjustment)
-BRAKE SIDE COG SHAFT, bearing was seized, the shaft had been eaten up quite a bit. It needed to come out anyways as I was changing my track. Luckily since we’ve been on the chassis since 2012 on and off, we had a spare shaft.
-FRONT SKID SHOCK, lower cross shaft on the skid was badly worn. Yamaha was back ordered, needed to get from CAT dealer. (who had 6 on the shelf lol)
At the time of the service I added Red Loctite instead of the factory Loctite on the tensioner’s roller.
I also added 680 bearing retainers TIGHT against the circlip, to gain the most “meat” possible on the shaft. It was so tight I had a hard time getting the circlip on the bottom gears of the chain case. KEEP THIS IN MIND. (was a bad move on my part, which, I knew better)
Fast forward to last 300 miles or so. Bad intermittent vibration (I say bad, because I don’t like any vibrations), most people would have attributed it to trail conditions. But I had an uneasy feeling. Probably because I’ve seen how these things are built. I had a sneaking suspicion It was my brake side bearing again. Ugh… Had a small trip planned…though it would hold. So I went along with it. The next runs out the vibration would not be felt for the start of the ride but would return latter. After my 520 miles 2 day trip, I knew the problem got worst. The vibration happened less often but with a bit more intensity.
NOW the major reason that race is turning is the tolerance for the inner race is not good from the factory, it’s way too loose. I imagine some smart guy made it like that so you wouldn't need a puller for simple services. But this is way too loose.
Secondly, the circlip should be 1/16 or 1/8 closer to the end of the shaft. I think some body flex and maybe a bit of wrong sizing in the shaft makes the bearing naturally want to ride out. When you look at the pictures of my bad shaft right close to the circlip the shaft is still good.
When it comes to our groups, the slow riders do not have a problem. So, I think the track tension in most cases is enough to hold the inner race in place. I think long fast trails, 90mph plus is what starts the bearing moving. I would assume the track whip at higher speeds sets that race free, once it starts turning it doesn’t matter what you try to do. It’s only going to get worst.
So I opened it up. Thinking I should still be in time to just take off the bearing add 680 Loctite and put it all back together. That 680 stuff hold big time (or so I though). The body flex combined with the circlip being to far in, broke off my 680 compound and it ran where it wanted to run, AGAIN. ...And it ground down just enough shaft to make me uncomfortable with using the shaft again.
So for you guys wanting to use the stock shaft without some kind of mechanical retainer for the inner race. Make sure you assemble the chain case side completely before adding your 680 and the brake side bearing. That way the bearing will end up way closer to where it “wants” to be. Kind of hanging over the edge closer to the splines. If you set it there it shouldn’t move. And you should just barely be able to put the brake circlip on. Keep in mind, that 680 compound cures quick so act fast once its out of the bottle. In my opinion a mechanical option would be better. I've seen posts with set screws inside the shaft, or marring the shaft so bad the bearing can't turn once it's pressed in.
With the bearing off, I could just feel the mark where the shaft was worn down with my nail. Dan's post scared me enough to warrant taking out my tensioner to weld the bolts lol.
So…since I was opening the chain case anyways. Time to fix this junk to my liking. I took out the cog shaft.
So I went to my local machine shop with a knowledge of what I want, some of his knowledge in the mix. As well from some inspiration from one of the posts I’ve seen. I’d give him props but I can’t find the post. Here are his pictures.
So we started by making an end plug, this would help later in the lath anyways as our center hole. When making your plug consider going in deep, well beyond the backside seal’s race. I went too short with only 1.5” in, when we added weld to build up the bearing race area it twisted the brake splines ever so slightly. We fixed it, but it took some time that would have easily been avoided with a deeper plug and a bit less heat (keep in mind the shaft is back ordered, here in Canada anyways, and I screwed up 2 on a 2017 sled. Same shaft on all Procross, same issues since 2012)
So now we build up with weld to be cut back down to a tighter spec later. I want a press fit, but not so bad that I need a strong puller later (but I want it no need one). So, we played around with this till I was satisfied.
Next the spacer for the circlip, I want the bearing to be in the optimal location for two things. First, I want the race to ride where it want’s to go naturally, in my case where it ground up my shaft twice. And secondly since I’m going to lock in my rotor later, I want it to be as centered as possible in my caliper.
The outer lock is so the circlip can not “pop out” was a nice little touch from my machinist. It even has a highly pleasant click when it locks around the clip and require just a bit of force to remove again.
Lastly the cap. This part is the most important for the setup I wanted. It makes it so my race is not only pressed in at a tighter spec, but it is pinched in between my new spacer and the rotor. It should go anywhere nor should it turn. I installed an M12 bolt with Loctite. I made the cap hollow area deep enough to work with or without my added spacer and even a bit more. I can add washers inside if I want to limit pressure or make the rotor floating again.
I sort of wished I had gone reverse threading here. I would worry that the bolt might want to turn especially if the heat from the brake is transmitted to the shaft and loosens the Loctite. The bolt I used is long enough that it can’t come out before contacting the brake guard, however.
When tidying up the chain case side, I left the stock upper gear as it was still in great shape. I had my doubts, since I started using another type of Oil in my chain case. And the replacement unit I got looked like it was marred on a shaft before shipping out. The hell is up with that.
I also added a thin washer behind the stock washer to push the gear outward (toward reverse gear) to remove some slop from the assembly.
Have no idea where that washer came from (PROBABLY BRP STUFF), but it was in my snowmobile bin and it was just the right size. I just wanted added area for the drive gears to rest on…and if I wear the inner bushing to hopefully get as much gear touching as possible. (My uncles’ 2018 had a fall out of gear issue/failure because the bushing went)
Anyways I hope this is the end all be all for my brake side bearing. I’ll need way more testing to confirm. I may have 40 miles on the setup now. It’ll be once less thing to worry about. Still scared as hell of that chain case. But wtv. This sled has been kind of a love hate relationship from the beginning. I’ve seen/ mocked the mostly unchanged design of some of the major pieces (4 main bearings, chaincase, TCL) for the longest time. But then I gave in and went to the Procross chassis. The chassis in my mind with the best trail prowess and handling of the current 4 manufacturers.
And to be honest I can compare it to my marriage. Some days are tough, some days I just want to throw it all away and go back to something more reliable. But then I RAIL HER INTO A HIGH SPEED CORNER. …And I remember why I’m stickin’ it out. Lol
Plus the grass doesn’t seem to be greener on any other side. Looks like the 4stroke 129” offerings are few and far between. The sleds you could get in 129” in 2019 are either 2stroke or lack a proper suspension package. I’ll have to see what’s going to be what in 2020.
