Tarzan said:
I am not riding in -30, so don't care
hugger70mtnmax said:
Here is a video by the ballistics company, in the video it says you can charge their batteries, with a normal charger...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc9kcGI1 ... ata_player
However, the LiFe (lithium ferrous) batteries, they have individual cells and can be charged cell by cell (called balance charging) and you can buy a special charger to do so...
So, nothing special is needed for these batteries, in fact, one of the better things is, when it is super cold turn the key, and leave it on for 5 minutes, it will actually increases the heat (wake up the battery) in the battery and thereby increase its ability to start first start in extreme cold...
randman516
Veteran
On the Shorai web sight it says that you have to leave the key on about 4-5 min when it is 0 deg. F (-17c) before you start it (to wake up the battery).
The LFX18L1-BS12 has the pos. terminal on the right side. 270cc, 2.19lbs. MSRP:$186.95 It is under (Apex 998cc)
The LFX18A1-BS12 has the pos. terminal on the left.
The LFX24L3-BS12 has 360cc,3.97lbs.MERP:$249.99 It is under (Vector 1049cc)
Hope this helps. Randy
The LFX18L1-BS12 has the pos. terminal on the right side. 270cc, 2.19lbs. MSRP:$186.95 It is under (Apex 998cc)
The LFX18A1-BS12 has the pos. terminal on the left.
The LFX24L3-BS12 has 360cc,3.97lbs.MERP:$249.99 It is under (Vector 1049cc)
Hope this helps. Randy
Off Trail Mike
Gone Riding!
I went the Shorai route in the MTX, but I might try the Ballistic in the Xtx. I emailed a few of the battery companies and they all basically said the same thing: When it gets cold, get some power flowing first to "wake up" the battery and then crank it, and if it's slow to turn over, give it 30 seconds and try again, it should improve as the battery warms.
In most situations when I park overnight, I have 120V so I will probably carry the small lithium charger in my overnight bag. The things are tiny and only weigh about 4 ounces so its not a big deal.
A big deal is slogging around 10 extra pounds of battery on the front end when slaloming. I can live with its shortcomings on brutally cold days.....or just stay in the camp!
OTM
In most situations when I park overnight, I have 120V so I will probably carry the small lithium charger in my overnight bag. The things are tiny and only weigh about 4 ounces so its not a big deal.
A big deal is slogging around 10 extra pounds of battery on the front end when slaloming. I can live with its shortcomings on brutally cold days.....or just stay in the camp!
OTM
TurboVector
Expert
This might make a nice addition to my 2012! Going to work on shedding some weight off of this sled.
Mountaintech
TY 4 Stroke God
Good info.
ArcticWhite
Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 38
You are focusing on only one battery rating, cold cranking amps. This speaks to the batteries internal resistance and how many peak amps a battery can deliver in the cold. It says nothing of the batteries storage capacity. This is measured in amp hours. Amp hours tells you how long a battery will crank the sled over before it goes dead. If a battery is rated at 10 amp hours, it will deliver 10 amps for one hour. If a starter takes 100 amps, it will crank the sled approx 1/10th of an hour. It is highly unlikely the smaller battery shown will have anywhere near the amp hours of the stock battery. Not an issue if you sled starts right away. Big issue if it does not.
If you can get a battery that is less weight and has both the same cca and same amp hours as stock, then you are truly not giving anything up for the weight savings.
If you can get a battery that is less weight and has both the same cca and same amp hours as stock, then you are truly not giving anything up for the weight savings.
ArcticWhite
Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 38
Also what was posted about using some power to warm the battery up first in the cold before starting applies to all batteries. Batteries create power through a chemical process. The warmer a chemical process is, the faster the chemical reaction. The colder, the slower. Different battery technologies use different reactions and therefore are affected by cold differently, but all suffer from it to varying extents.
beeze455
Expert
I just bought the 12 cell.
http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/ ... 12cell.php
My dealer is a parts unlimited dealer, so i could get it right from him. I could not find it in the catalog, but ballastic sent me the part numbers. The second number is parts unlimited.
101-009 2113-0257 $ 49.95 EVO2 50
101-010 2113-0258 $ 99.95 4 Cell EVO2
101-011 2113-0259 $ 159.95 8 Cell EVO2
101-012 2113-0260 $ 189.95 12 Cell EVO2
101-012L 2113-0265 $ 189.95 12 Cell EVO2 L
101-013 2113-0261 $ 269.95 16 Cell EVO2
200-002 3807-0104 $ 79.95 EVO2 BMS Charger 110V
200-008 3807-0105 $ 79.95 EVO 2 BMS Charger 220V
300-001 2113-0262 $ 49.95 EVO2 Quick Disconnect Kit
300-002 2113-0263 $ 9.95 EVO2 Ext Cable Kit
700-015 2113-0264 $ 9.95 FL Foam Kit
http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/ ... 12cell.php
My dealer is a parts unlimited dealer, so i could get it right from him. I could not find it in the catalog, but ballastic sent me the part numbers. The second number is parts unlimited.
101-009 2113-0257 $ 49.95 EVO2 50
101-010 2113-0258 $ 99.95 4 Cell EVO2
101-011 2113-0259 $ 159.95 8 Cell EVO2
101-012 2113-0260 $ 189.95 12 Cell EVO2
101-012L 2113-0265 $ 189.95 12 Cell EVO2 L
101-013 2113-0261 $ 269.95 16 Cell EVO2
200-002 3807-0104 $ 79.95 EVO2 BMS Charger 110V
200-008 3807-0105 $ 79.95 EVO 2 BMS Charger 220V
300-001 2113-0262 $ 49.95 EVO2 Quick Disconnect Kit
300-002 2113-0263 $ 9.95 EVO2 Ext Cable Kit
700-015 2113-0264 $ 9.95 FL Foam Kit
On the site it says 15 Pbeq A/H? Not sure what a Pbeq is ?
Off Trail Mike
Gone Riding!
PBEq is lead equivalent amp-hours (pb is its periodic or chemical symbol for lead). The reason they are using pbEq is due to the problem with making a straight amp-hours comparision between lead and lithium batteries.
As ArticWhite said, under "ideal" conditions (which a freezing cold start of a sled is NOT) a 10 amp-hr battery can put out 10amps for one hour or 100amps for 1/10th of an hour, or 300amps for 2 minutes. Reality is quite different.
In cold starting situations, we normally encounter high battery discharge rates (>200amps) which we all know, can kill a battery in 20 seconds or less, so the "real" amp hours when starting sleds is greatly less than the "advertized" number, when starting in our conditions.
What the lithium batteries do much better than lead acid is they can sustain much higher discharge rates alot easier, so their "real" amp-hours are actually closer to reality than those used with lead acid, thus the pbEq ratings.
That's the long winded answer to agree with ArticWhite....amp-hours matter.
Nytro's seem to be pretty capable of repeat starts with either the Yuasa YTX-12 (10 amp-hr and 180cca) or the stock YTX-20 (18 amp-hr and 270cca).
That being the case, I would be looking for lithium's with comparable specs, and look for ones with similar pbEq amp-hours....good place to start.
OTM
As ArticWhite said, under "ideal" conditions (which a freezing cold start of a sled is NOT) a 10 amp-hr battery can put out 10amps for one hour or 100amps for 1/10th of an hour, or 300amps for 2 minutes. Reality is quite different.
In cold starting situations, we normally encounter high battery discharge rates (>200amps) which we all know, can kill a battery in 20 seconds or less, so the "real" amp hours when starting sleds is greatly less than the "advertized" number, when starting in our conditions.
What the lithium batteries do much better than lead acid is they can sustain much higher discharge rates alot easier, so their "real" amp-hours are actually closer to reality than those used with lead acid, thus the pbEq ratings.
That's the long winded answer to agree with ArticWhite....amp-hours matter.
Nytro's seem to be pretty capable of repeat starts with either the Yuasa YTX-12 (10 amp-hr and 180cca) or the stock YTX-20 (18 amp-hr and 270cca).
That being the case, I would be looking for lithium's with comparable specs, and look for ones with similar pbEq amp-hours....good place to start.
OTM
beeze455
Expert
Off Trail Mike said:
so the 12 ballastic has Amperage: 20 Pbeq A/H and Cold Cranking Amps: 410 CCA. Still better then stock on paper...Right?
Off Trail Mike
Gone Riding!
Right on Beeze. On paper the Ballistic should outperform the stocker.
My only question now, is related to cold weather performance. Since all batteries loose voltage as it gets colder...it will be interesting to see how well the lithium hold up in the real world.
NB, like ME has its fair share of cold weather, but most days we don't see very much below -20c so that's all I am looking for.
I know the stocker battery is capable....so its rating should be all you need. I started my xtx one morning at -34C and it fired right up (although after running for 5 minutes, I shut it off and it wouldn't restart thanks to a frozen relay).
Lots of guys trying the Ballistic, Shorai, and there are some pure lithium-ion batteries from Super B, and Full Spectrum Power.
It will be interesting to hear the reports back!
OTM
My only question now, is related to cold weather performance. Since all batteries loose voltage as it gets colder...it will be interesting to see how well the lithium hold up in the real world.
NB, like ME has its fair share of cold weather, but most days we don't see very much below -20c so that's all I am looking for.
I know the stocker battery is capable....so its rating should be all you need. I started my xtx one morning at -34C and it fired right up (although after running for 5 minutes, I shut it off and it wouldn't restart thanks to a frozen relay).
Lots of guys trying the Ballistic, Shorai, and there are some pure lithium-ion batteries from Super B, and Full Spectrum Power.
It will be interesting to hear the reports back!
OTM
We can expect some new technologies in batteries in the coming years due to the race to build a better battery for electric cars.
They are different, and so it is normal to have the skepticism...
However, the Lithium Ferrous will out perform lead batteries, in both cold and warm climate temperatures...They will both have different characteristics, and what we have come to know of a slow start is an instant trigger to think one is good or bad...
i.e. Lithium Ferrous never needs trickle charging...however, in cold weather starts they will need to be "awakened" which means initially, and for the first start, you will probably have to either leave the key on to wake up the battery (i.e. heat it up) or do a turn of the key a couple times...but after it is warm, it is good to go whole day...
just different, but clearly longer lasting, lighter weight, and proven to be more reliable, and does not have most of the limitations of Lead Acid batteries...
there are some good videos and reviews out there on this stuff (youtube and elsewhere)
as most of you know, I generally get product testing stuff and will continue to be the guinea pig and try stuff...
as soon as I have my sled, I will post pics and videos of what happens on a cold morning for starts and riding impressions etc.
However, the Lithium Ferrous will out perform lead batteries, in both cold and warm climate temperatures...They will both have different characteristics, and what we have come to know of a slow start is an instant trigger to think one is good or bad...
i.e. Lithium Ferrous never needs trickle charging...however, in cold weather starts they will need to be "awakened" which means initially, and for the first start, you will probably have to either leave the key on to wake up the battery (i.e. heat it up) or do a turn of the key a couple times...but after it is warm, it is good to go whole day...
just different, but clearly longer lasting, lighter weight, and proven to be more reliable, and does not have most of the limitations of Lead Acid batteries...
there are some good videos and reviews out there on this stuff (youtube and elsewhere)
as most of you know, I generally get product testing stuff and will continue to be the guinea pig and try stuff...
as soon as I have my sled, I will post pics and videos of what happens on a cold morning for starts and riding impressions etc.
