New Battery (boring topic HUGE weight/$ savings)

[rlcofmn]

Just let it sit for 10 min with the ignition on. No difference. It's about 0 today.

 

[otis]

Did it start at zero today? I have one in the box new waiting to see if it's worth the trouble. I really like the weight savings. That battery heater which was posted looks like a really good alternative. If it's too cold.

Otis

 

[rlcofmn]

At 5 degrees today, it started on the 3rd try. I did some short vids of the starting attempts. I will post them when I get the chance. I'm not going to put any effort into a heater of sort, it's not worth it to me. I may try putting a headlight on and have it on a switch to see if thats enough draw to "wake it up". I really am not liking the abuse having to crank it to get it to wake up. I'm not sure if it's worth the 4 or 5 lbs from a conventional lightweight battery. Even at 20 below my 50 dollar bikebats mbtz10s would always start it. Even at 15 above I'm having to crank it 2 to 3 times.

Also once again to make sure people know this is the 12 cell, I can't imagine what the 8 would be like.

 

[Mtnviper]

Can't be good for the starter either. I would assume it's going through a Low voltage, High amperage struggle.

X2 ^

Yeah thats hard on starters alright.
The heater suggestion got me to thinking. While working out in the shop today I found some universal handle bar heater elements from a previous project. They have an adhesive back on them. So I stuck them to a couple pieces of aluminum and taped them to the side of a hedge trimmer battery with a temp probe between the plate and battery.

With the 2 plates wired series, I set the power supply to approx 10.5 volts to similated a cold battery. Wired in series the resistance is 15 ohms and the current draw was approx 1/2 amp. The temp only got up to 84*F after about 5 min.
With one grid connected (7.5ohms) the current draw bumped up to approx 1.4 amps and the plate heated up to approx 145*F in about 3 minutes.
I never did try two plates wired in parallel, if someone was going to try this that probably would be the way to go, as the higher current draw and hotter plates would warm the battery up quicker. Also I think that I would wrap the battery/plates in some type of heat insulating tape as well, so that the heat energy goes inwards to the battery instead of out into the cold ambient air.
They do get hot though so I don't think that I would leave the heater on for more than a few minutes!

Would it work? Hard to say it doesn't get that cold where I live.
The good thing is that the elements are inexpensive so it wouldn't cost much to try.

The simple version could be just wire a toggle switch and an LED indicator.
While a more deluxe set-up would be to use a control module with temp and battery voltage sensors.

 

[The Dude]

Watching and reading this thread with great interest as I still have the stock battery in my 08 phazer mtx and have been watching the voltage deteriorating lately and rightfully so given its age. We have some real cold here right now -20F at home (in the hills, inversion) -40F or so in the valleys, anyway, went to try to start the phazer yesterday, just to see if it would, no go. Cranked well at first but just not enough amp hours left in it any more, brought it in thawed, warmed, charged and it started well. That said there's no way I can trust this to start under these temps, which we get often. This also means if I do overnighters I have to warm things up a bit, one trick I use are the air activated hand/pocket warmers, 1 on each side of the battery for awhile and its cranking like it was plugged in. Great info here as I need a new battery and would love to lose some weight and gain performance possibly!

 

[rlcofmn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssKxoU4D ... Og&lf=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mZWjbLG ... Og&lf=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nASVXSeW ... Og&lf=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuJ6NMD- ... ature=plcp

Here you have it, this is what it took to start it at 5 above. The attempts are a few min apart.

Yes I am using a screwdriver to start it . Secret trick for when your key falls out in the snow inverted in a tree.

Unloading the sled from the trailer to the shop last night was quite irritating. What should be a quick ordeal turns into 15-20 min battery warm up.

 

[beeze455]

I wonder if the 3lb battery they sell would work noticbly better. I am thinkin about putting quick connect of sorts for my stock battey to jump it. Mainly because I already spent the cash on the battery. It will be fine for spring riding...LOL.

 

[otis]

Well the hand warmer idea has me sold. I'm going to wire up a hand warmer to a switch and place it under the battery. 5 minutes to warm up the battery should allow enough power to start the sled. Will be fun to try anyway.

Otis

 

[beeze455]

Well the hand warmer idea has me sold. I'm going to wire up a hand warmer to a switch and place it under the battery. 5 minutes to warm up the battery should allow enough power to start the sled. Will be fun to try anyway.

Otis

Seems kinda retarded to have a warmer for your battery, but I think I am going to do the same. LOL. Dennis Kirk has some for 30 that comes with the switch. It draws 25 or 35 watts. I know barely nothing about electricity, but quick calculator says the hand warmers can run for 8 hours on low or 5 on high. So 5 mins on high would not kill the battery, but give it that heat and draw to liven things up.....I think because I really have no clue.

 

[rlcofmn]

I don't think 5 min will do anything. The load I am putting on my battery is a great amount and it takes minimum 10 min to start. Also batterys store energy, think about how long it takes for a cold drill battery to warm up enough to charge in a warm room. Not to be mr. negative, just saying.

Also keep in mind, once a half a pound of wire, hand warmers, switch, fuse is added, now we are down to a 4.5 pound savings that is a pita. I'm not convinced not to go this route yet, just not convinced that this weight loss is worth it yet either.

 

[otis]

I agree this is stupid, but those of us already invested in the new tech Li+ battery have no choice. $150 already spent and I'm not excited to purchase another lead/acid YUASA YTZ-10s for $130. The $20 for the hand warmer and the 1/4lb added might be the trick and worth it and still 5 lbs lighter.

For what it's worth my YTZ-10 battery wasn't a starting champion either. It left me many mornings looking for a battery/jumper box. Anything colder than 5F and I was worried about getting it started. This is no different.

Otis

 

[yukon yamaha]

I don't think that this Battery is the answer for day to day starting, BUT for Racing or drag racing that littlle battery is the ticket and I will begetting one just for drag racing this year

 

[beeze455]

I don't think 5 min will do anything. The load I am putting on my battery is a great amount and it takes minimum 10 min to start. Also batterys store energy, think about how long it takes for a cold drill battery to warm up enough to charge in a warm room. Not to be mr. negative, just saying.

Also keep in mind, once a half a pound of wire, hand warmers, switch, fuse is added, now we are down to a 4.5 pound savings that is a pita. I'm not convinced not to go this route yet, just not convinced that this weight loss is worth it yet either.

Somebody needs to be the devils advocate, so I do not consider you being negative.

But the handwarmers compared to yours is both directly heating up the battery and pulling from it. It is only needed on first startup. Plugging it in or waiting longer then 10mins are both things I am not willing to do. If the first thing I do when I get out of the truck is flip the switch to my battery warmer and do my other stuff, it will hopefully be good to go. I would only be needed on cold days. In Maine, most riding is 20f and above. Yea, i have ridden in -20, but not alot. I am also not removing reverse because I am lazy, so to each his own. I reserve the right to change my mind.

 

[rlcofmn]

I don't think 5 min will do anything. The load I am putting on my battery is a great amount and it takes minimum 10 min to start. Also batterys store energy, think about how long it takes for a cold drill battery to warm up enough to charge in a warm room. Not to be mr. negative, just saying.

Also keep in mind, once a half a pound of wire, hand warmers, switch, fuse is added, now we are down to a 4.5 pound savings that is a pita. I'm not convinced not to go this route yet, just not convinced that this weight loss is worth it yet either.

Somebody needs to be the devils advocate, so I do not consider you being negative.

But the handwarmers compared to yours is both directly heating up the battery and pulling from it. It is only needed on first startup. Plugging it in or waiting longer then 10mins are both things I am not willing to do. If the first thing I do when I get out of the truck is flip the switch to my battery warmer and do my other stuff, it will hopefully be good to go. I would only be needed on cold days. In Maine, most riding is 20f and above. Yea, i have ridden in -20, but not alot. I am also not removing reverse because I am lazy, so to each his own. I reserve the right to change my mind.

I'm removing reverse cause I'm too lazy to use the lever so even with reverse I ride like I don't have it So as you said, to each is there own

I think we are all on the same page, if the handwarmers work in less than 10 min I'll be on the bandwagon. The other thing is, I don't like to ride cold either but I still cant just go start my sled at 15, thats not uncommon for a winter morning. If it worked untill 10 degrees I would have no problems dealing with it the times it is below that. Also to the conventional 10 series batteries, my cheap bikebats one never didn't start even at -25. So thats just where I'm coming from. But the battery is still in my sled so I have not given up and the good news is it works great after the initial start up.

I need to get back to hauling with my rig, I hate cold seats anyways

 

[otis]

The single hand warmer listed above hit 145F in 3 minutes at only 10.5V. That's a lot warmer than a cold drill in warm room waiting for the battery to heat up. Don't kill innovation until after you see the results. For now I'm a believer.

Otis