Nine2Nine
Expert
kojack said:My local part supplies didn't have loctite so I bought it's equivalent. I bought the Permatex brand and it's the red one but not liquid, It's gel and smells like cherry. Looks like a candy push thingy. Almost want to lick it and taste it but the wife said it was a bad idea. So the spline had it but not meNot sure if its totally cure cause' i didn't open to check but when i started the sled almost all the rattling is gone. The only rattling i hear now is from the primary itself. But with the side cover back on, I barely ear any clunking.
Boomba, I'm not sure if one of the loctite # u guys used but If i read correctly some need heat to cure. I havent did deep in the loctite specs as I was using a different brand. I'll go check the clutch right now to see if she moves. be back in a sec.
fxnytroxtx, the primary clutch torque setting is 120 Nm (12.0 m • kg, 85 ft • lb) 60 Nm (6.0 m • kg, 43 ft • lb) if you dont remove the primary from the shaft. For the 4 little bolts that hold the bracket and the 2 other underneath i'm not sure on the torque specs. Couldnt find them at the time but they weren't tight so I just tightened them until snug and a little more just because I can.
Update: I've check the clutch again. There is still a slight play in the clutch but the rattling is way less than before. Not sure if the gel is dampening some of the rattle but it will have more than enough time to cure as the snow is still too far to ride. I do not have any heat in my garage also so i'm sure it's making a difference on curing time. I am already pleased with the result and my sled only has 2500km on her. It has about another month to month 1/2 to cure before i ride it.
It sure don't taste as good as it smells, kinda like battery acid.... it was 20 years ago and after 144 old school studs I was tempted!!!! So just a dab was enough to work!!!!
kojack
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Not quite the party in your mouth kinda taste. bahahaha I'll take a beer instead. That's right, we canucks do that.
Beenba
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
The 600 series of loctite sure doesn't smell that good lol.
Well guys I fired up my sled and *drumroll* no more rattle!!!
It's quite as a mouse. I left my orings on the roller bolts and you can't hear a noise from the clutch. It's like there is nothing there. I revved it up to 8k with the track lifted and everything is perfect. I have a few good revs with the parking brake on to load up the clutch and no problems.
It's too bad I had a bad bottle and had to do it twice, but I would do it again if I had too. Sweet!!!!!!!
Well guys I fired up my sled and *drumroll* no more rattle!!!
It's quite as a mouse. I left my orings on the roller bolts and you can't hear a noise from the clutch. It's like there is nothing there. I revved it up to 8k with the track lifted and everything is perfect. I have a few good revs with the parking brake on to load up the clutch and no problems.
It's too bad I had a bad bottle and had to do it twice, but I would do it again if I had too. Sweet!!!!!!!
ViperTurboPete
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That's great news! I will look into doing that also, but I don't have heat in my garage.
The part I am a little confused about is the aluminum thingy on the clutch bolt. I guess you pile drive the thing or socket gently downwards and the stub shaft assembly pops up?
The part I am a little confused about is the aluminum thingy on the clutch bolt. I guess you pile drive the thing or socket gently downwards and the stub shaft assembly pops up?
Supa Dexta
Expert
Yes thats correct,
Alatalo
TY 4 Stroke Master
The splined stub shaft takes care of the side load from the clutch because the crank bearings will not handle this load very well. Because of this I would not glue it solid. If anything, some kind of viscous damper would be a better solution, but not very easy to apply without redesigning the entire system.kimoajaj said:
1975FA
Expert
Alatalo said:
I was thinking of trying high temp rubber sillicone. It would stop the rattle and allow few thousanths of flex. I have seen it used on ATV's to take the rattle out of a brake disc that was splined to a jackshaft, and it held up fine. My concern would be that if it comes apart its going to end up in the oil pump suction screen.
Beenba
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
^i see your guys concern, I was in the same boat last year. I was originally planning to play around with some dampers until I heard of a few people who have already done this with no issues. One guy is even making 300hp and his has been fine.
If you think about it, glueing the stub shaft shouldn't increase the loading on the crank and main bearings at all. In order for extra loading to happen, both the ball bearings supporting the stub shaft would have to wear out. And then glued or unglued you are going to have the same issue, of additional load on the main bearing closest to the end of the crank.
From my experience having it apart, the splines also do not allow for any up/down movement. Quite a tight fit in regards to the OD ID if the splines. The rattle is more caused from the in and out and rotational movement in the splines.
Lastly, and I don't exactly know if this one applies because i do not know the widths if the main bearings, but my old 700 has the exact same clutch and it never used a stub shaft or 2 big bearings on the end of the crank. It also revved to 8700 rpm and has 140hp.
Overall I'm not worrying, if my sled blows up you guys can be sure I will let you know! lol
If you think about it, glueing the stub shaft shouldn't increase the loading on the crank and main bearings at all. In order for extra loading to happen, both the ball bearings supporting the stub shaft would have to wear out. And then glued or unglued you are going to have the same issue, of additional load on the main bearing closest to the end of the crank.
From my experience having it apart, the splines also do not allow for any up/down movement. Quite a tight fit in regards to the OD ID if the splines. The rattle is more caused from the in and out and rotational movement in the splines.
Lastly, and I don't exactly know if this one applies because i do not know the widths if the main bearings, but my old 700 has the exact same clutch and it never used a stub shaft or 2 big bearings on the end of the crank. It also revved to 8700 rpm and has 140hp.
Overall I'm not worrying, if my sled blows up you guys can be sure I will let you know! lol
canoehead
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What about putting a O ring on the crank? It might give it a dampening effect when married up?
Beenba
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
A colleague and I had that thought also when we were discussing at work. We just couldn't see one fitting in there unless you were to machine a groove for it to sit in, in the stub shaft. It also may wear out quickly, but u never know. It would allow for easy disassembly though if ever needed (which I dont see why it would even be needed though).
Tarzan
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Beenba said:The 600 series of loctite sure doesn't smell that good lol.
Well guys I fired up my sled and *drumroll* no more rattle!!!
It's quite as a mouse. I left my orings on the roller bolts and you can't hear a noise from the clutch. It's like there is nothing there. I revved it up to 8k with the track lifted and everything is perfect. I have a few good revs with the parking brake on to load up the clutch and no problems.
It's too bad I had a bad bottle and had to do it twice, but I would do it again if I had too. Sweet!!!!!!!
Hmm I am still in doubt wether I should do this or not.. . Why havent Yamaha made the splines tighter to avoid the rattle? If it was OK to have them tight.. .
I wonder if there is a compound that will let the splines "flex" but still keep them tight, I can picture "Sicaflex" between the shaft, it would be like rubber. That would be awesome. Hmm.
Another thing I wonder is the movement of the collar for the rollers that also creates a rattle.
Why is it so long? I do understand that you do not want to put "tension" on the clutch parts themselves by maybe using a shorter collar and making the bolt and nut contact the clutch itself but as long as the collar is just barely longer it should be OK.
When you add O-rings you stop the collar from moving, if you put the collars in a lathe and cut them precisely you could reduce the collar movement and as long as you torque them correctly and check that it isnt binding, you should be good to go.???
This would be a permanent solution.
Or, does the to great movement of the collar have something to do with reducing the wear of the bushing inside the roller???
Guess I`m thinking loud now but.. why not.
. Why havent Yamaha made the splines tighter to avoid the rattle? If it was OK to have them tight.. .I wonder if there is a compound that will let the splines "flex" but still keep them tight, I can picture "Sicaflex" between the shaft, it would be like rubber. That would be awesome. Hmm.
Another thing I wonder is the movement of the collar for the rollers that also creates a rattle.
Why is it so long? I do understand that you do not want to put "tension" on the clutch parts themselves by maybe using a shorter collar and making the bolt and nut contact the clutch itself but as long as the collar is just barely longer it should be OK.
When you add O-rings you stop the collar from moving, if you put the collars in a lathe and cut them precisely you could reduce the collar movement and as long as you torque them correctly and check that it isnt binding, you should be good to go.???
This would be a permanent solution.
Or, does the to great movement of the collar have something to do with reducing the wear of the bushing inside the roller???
Guess I`m thinking loud now but.. why not.
yox185
TY 4 Stroke Master
Quick question, with any of these products on the stub, will you be able to remove it at a later date?
Beenba
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
^Removal will require heat. Likely not going to get it out unless motor is disassembled, which I am fine with. The shaft is pointless IMO and never really needs to come out.
kimoajaj if you are referring to the collars as the roller bolts, putting a o-ring on before the nut just prevents the bolts from rattling around. The rollers still spin and operate as normal. In earlier years, such as on my 700, they actually used to have a couple set screws pushing on the bolts to prevent the rattle. They only did that for the weight bolts on the nytro and not on the roller bolts...weird. I put 2000km on my sled last year with the o-rings and had 0 issues with them falling off or nuts backing off etc.
kimoajaj if you are referring to the collars as the roller bolts, putting a o-ring on before the nut just prevents the bolts from rattling around. The rollers still spin and operate as normal. In earlier years, such as on my 700, they actually used to have a couple set screws pushing on the bolts to prevent the rattle. They only did that for the weight bolts on the nytro and not on the roller bolts...weird. I put 2000km on my sled last year with the o-rings and had 0 issues with them falling off or nuts backing off etc.
Beenba: Did you put the o-ring on the nut side or on the head side of the bolt? I know many people have problems with the o-rings disappearing after only a short time of running. What o-rings did you use? size?
PS you need to update your signature with "no clutch rattling"
PS you need to update your signature with "no clutch rattling"
