Primary clutch exploded

[WinterWolf]

No, on a nytro I used to own.

WTF...never had one problem with any clutching on my Apex in 6000 miles. But you had a problem with your Nytro..???

And now all these Sidewinder clutches cracking And blowing up...this is just total BS!! So glad I went TAPP this year. Blowing a belt is one thing, blowing a clutch apart is totally another.

And before anybody says it’s cuz it’s Tuned...my primary rollers were freezing up before I tuned mine.

 

[fatchance]

We need a 4 cylinder in these winders so we can get rid of these bad harmonics of this 3 banger. Not only that it seems we have clutch parts with wildly ranging tolerances. My moveable on the primary doesn't slide for $hit, it binds up like a motha just moving it accessing the weights. Still dragging my feet on the Tapp purchase due to lack of riding opportunities this year, but i think it's inevitable. I'm not convinced these Apex primarys are going to hold up any better on the Winder. Definitely knowledgeable people on here having success, but it's a limited sample size of wear and tear so far. Let's see what happens with more people running them and get some miles on them.

 

[STAIN]

We need a 4 cylinder in these winders so we can get rid of these bad harmonics of this 3 banger

or you need gear reduction like the 4 cylinder. that what isolated the vibration from the clutches

 

[STAIN]

Catch of the day. ...

I have manage to came back home slowly whit the left foot far away from the clutch!
I have change a lotssss of parts along the way( +/-16 oookm) Time to go back to old primary


View attachment 153384 View attachment 153385

Yamaha needs to send you stuff for testing!!!! You are the hardest man on sled parts I have ever seen! I thought I used to break stuff, nothing like you sir.
Are you going old RX-1 clutch or aftermarket?

 

[KnappAttack]

We need a 4 cylinder in these winders so we can get rid of these bad harmonics of this 3 banger. Not only that it seems we have clutch parts with wildly ranging tolerances. My moveable on the primary doesn't slide for $hit, it binds up like a motha just moving it accessing the weights. Still dragging my feet on the Tapp purchase due to lack of riding opportunities this year, but i think it's inevitable. I'm not convinced these Apex primarys are going to hold up any better on the Winder. Definitely knowledgeable people on here having success, but it's a limited sample size of wear and tear so far. Let's see what happens with more people running them and get some miles on them.

My Winder primary was doing the same binding, and the reason I went back to the RX-1 primary this season. The rollers are actually lasting on the RX-1 primary and my buddy is having the same success with the Apex primary on his winder.

I believe the Winder clutch is really made in China from inferior metals, and is suspect in design compared to the old primary. I'm checking the rollers on the old clutch and the binding to see if it's changing and can see no sign of it warping, sticking or wearing rollers yet. I'll continue to use it until I see signs of failure, once I see signs it will be a TAPP after that, but so far so good, and no belt failures with it either.

I even went back to a 8JP yesterday because I needed some quick RPM from the warm temps and loose snow and I was abusing it! I can't believe it didn't blow. The winder primary would have gernaded it. I'm now certain the Winder primary was to blame for all my belt failures and inconsistency... They need to shelve that POS from future sleds!

 

[Macheater]

The data that I would like to see at this point is; what is the durability/longevity like with the stock clutches on a stock sled, vs a mid-power tune, vs a high-power tune. There's likely no question that the durability goes down as power output goes up. But, are the clutches holding up well on stock machines? Or, are they only suffering under more output? If the answer is yes to both of those questions, the direction that needs to be taken would seem obvious. Better components!

A winder with a 280-300hp tune is making 50% more power than it was designed for. Can't expect that kinda increase without some components failing under extended use.

Are they an inferior clutch? Possibly. Is an Apex primary a better design? Again, possibly/probably.
IMO if your gonna invest all the extra $$$ into making the kinda hp these machines are capable of, than other parts/pieces need to be upgraded as well.

Gotta remember, until the Winders came along, trail machinery making over 200hp was fairly uncommon. And the one's that did make over that usually needed upgrades or it was just EXPECTED that eventual parts failure/replacement was the cost of such performance.

Now, we STILL want our cake and eat too! Gotta spend the $$$. We've all heard the phrase "Pay to Play".

 

[WinterWolf]

The data that I would like to see at this point is; what is the durability/longevity like with the stock clutches on a stock sled, vs a mid-power tune, vs a high-power tune. There's likely no question that the durability goes down as power output goes up. But, are the clutches holding up well on stock machines? Or, are they only suffering under more output? If the answer is yes to both of those questions, the direction that needs to be taken would seem obvious. Better components!

A winder with a 280-300hp tune is making 50% more power than it was designed for. Can't expect that kinda increase without some components failing under extended use.

Are they an inferior clutch? Possibly. Is an Apex primary a better design? Again, possibly/probably.
IMO if your gonna invest all the extra $$$ into making the kinda hp these machines are capable of, than other parts/pieces need to be upgraded as well.

Gotta remember, until the Winders came along, trail machinery making over 200hp was fairly uncommon. And the one's that did make over that usually needed upgrades or it was just EXPECTED that eventual parts failure/replacement was the cost of such performance.

Now, we STILL want our cake and eat too! Gotta spend the $$$. We've all heard the phrase "Pay to Play".

That's why I went with the TAPP and pro 4. I’m using SM Tune bundle from Hurricane. And didn’t want to mess around with the stock junk clutching any more. It was expensive...but they are so much beefier in every way, and can handle much more power than my tuned winder is putting out currently.

I do believe the stock clutching on the winders are inferior pieces..even at stock levels. My primary was freezing up rollers even stock. Had to check them constantly....not good. And once you’re tuned..it gets even worse. So I bit the bullet and went Billet lol.

 

[Macheater]

That's why I went with the TAPP and pro 4. I’m using SM Tune bundle from Hurricane. And didn’t want to mess around with the stock junk clutching any more. It was expensive...but they are so much beefier in every way, and can handle much more power than my tuned winder is putting out currently.

I do believe the stock clutching on the winders are inferior pieces..even at stock levels. My primary was freezing up rollers even stock. Had to check them constantly....not good. And once you’re tuned..it gets even worse. So I bit the bullet and went Billet lol.

Smart decision!

 

[KnappAttack]

Many-many sleds prior to the SideWinder had power levels well above 200HP, turbo Apex's, Vipers, Nytros, 1200Doo's, Cat 1100 turbos. Most of them are perfectly happy on old Yamaha primaries, PB-80's and of course the host of Aftermarket primaries.

Where Yamaha messed up was having them sourced to China for the winder. When steel post's crack on them and they start binding up, you know they cant take the power, and that is what is showing up on them now, which was a very rare occurrence on the old Yamaha primaries. Many Apex's ran them upwards of 400 HP, 300 HP with ease and on cheap 8DN belts as well. Of course the Apex was gear reduced and had a cushioned drive as well, but many are running the old Yamaha primary on the 1200 Doo with complete success, and if a clutch will live on the 1200, it should live on the 998 Yamaha with ease. The 1200 Rotax is very hard on primaries.

 

[ClutchMaster]

The data that I would like to see at this point is; what is the durability/longevity like with the stock clutches on a stock sled, vs a mid-power tune, vs a high-power tune. There's likely no question that the durability goes down as power output goes up. But, are the clutches holding up well on stock machines? Or, are they only suffering under more output? If the answer is yes to both of those questions, the direction that needs to be taken would seem obvious. Better components!

A winder with a 280-300hp tune is making 50% more power than it was designed for. Can't expect that kinda increase without some components failing under extended use.

Are they an inferior clutch? Possibly. Is an Apex primary a better design? Again, possibly/probably.
IMO if your gonna invest all the extra $$$ into making the kinda hp these machines are capable of, than other parts/pieces need to be upgraded as well.

Gotta remember, until the Winders came along, trail machinery making over 200hp was fairly uncommon. And the one's that did make over that usually needed upgrades or it was just EXPECTED that eventual parts failure/replacement was the cost of such performance.

Now, we STILL want our cake and eat too! Gotta spend the $$$. We've all heard the phrase "Pay to Play".

Guys with big power apex machines have been running the old clutches for years, that doesn’t mean they eventually didn’t fail tho, but never heard about it.

I believe it has more to do with the aluminum alloy that’s being used and the heat treating process. Not sure if the machining work is done in China but probably the casting process and heat treatment is. Things like heat treating and alloy content which have no visible evidence of quality are neglected by these idiots. I have seen automotive clutch hubs go bad in a couple thousand miles due to improper heat treatment, totally soft or brittle from not being tempered properly. M2c

 

[PowderFalcon]

Many-many sleds prior to the SideWinder had power levels well above 200HP, turbo Apex's, Vipers, Nytros, 1200Doo's, Cat 1100 turbos. Most of them are perfectly happy on old Yamaha primaries, PB-80's and of course the host of Aftermarket primaries.

Where Yamaha messed up was having them sourced to China for the winder. When steel post's crack on them and they start binding up, you know they cant take the power, and that is what is showing up on them now, which was a very rare occurrence on the old Yamaha primaries. Many Apex's ran them upwards of 400 HP, 300 HP with ease and on cheap 8DN belts as well. Of course the Apex was gear reduced and had a cushioned drive as well, but many are running the old Yamaha primary on the 1200 Doo with complete success, and if a clutch will live on the 1200, it should live on the 998 Yamaha with ease. The 1200 Rotax is very hard on primaries.

06-10 or 11+ for apex primary mike?

 

[74Nitro]

06-10 or 11+ for apex primary mike?

I could be wrong, but i think all the four stroke clutches from 2003- 2018 were the same basic design excluding the Winder.
I just sold a friend of mine a new powerbloc for his 2017 Cat 9000, his Team had 8000kms on it, and the movable sheave was cracking around the main bushing. Most of those kms were stock power, except last year.

 

[Byam]

Yamaha needs to send you stuff for testing!!!! You are the hardest man on sled parts I have ever seen! I thought I used to break stuff, nothing like you sir.
Are you going old RX-1 clutch or aftermarket?

Hihi , i am not sure if its good or not...
Viper clutch cut for OD ! I have found 911 cover to go whit it to compensate for belt sheave clearance.

Viper clutch doesn’t have set screws for pin/roller, i think all apex clutches have them ;-/. Sliders are a little different to. I always have a spare clutch on the shelf ready to so i am looking for one whit set screws . I have so much yamaha stock, i am not ready to go aftermarket yet.

 

[74Nitro]

WTF...never had one problem with any clutching on my Apex in 6000 miles. But you had a problem with your Nytro..???

And now all these Sidewinder clutches cracking And blowing up...this is just total BS!! So glad I went TAPP this year. Blowing a belt is one thing, blowing a clutch apart is totally another.

And before anybody says it’s cuz it’s Tuned...my primary rollers were freezing up before I tuned mine.

It was about five years ago when my Nytro cracked from outward from the spider similar to the pic. It would have had over 14000kms for sure. I asked my dealer if he had seen that happen before and he said twice.
The telltale sign that I failed to pick up on was the sled was hitting the 9200 rpm limiter often that night(it was binding). I had the sled clutched for about 9000 because I had the 170hp MPI supercharger on it.

 

[fatchance]

My Winder primary was doing the same binding, and the reason I went back to the RX-1 primary this season. The rollers are actually lasting on the RX-1 primary and my buddy is having the same success with the Apex primary on his winder.

I believe the Winder clutch is really made in China from inferior metals, and is suspect in design compared to the old primary. I'm checking the rollers on the old clutch and the binding to see if it's changing and can see no sign of it warping, sticking or wearing rollers yet. I'll continue to use it until I see signs of failure, once I see signs it will be a TAPP after that, but so far so good, and no belt failures with it either.

I even went back to a 8JP yesterday because I needed some quick RPM from the warm temps and loose snow and I was abusing it! I can't believe it didn't blow. The winder primary would have gernaded it. I'm now certain the Winder primary was to blame for all my belt failures and inconsistency... They need to shelve that POS from future sleds!

I don't doubt it one bit Mike. I have been Bitching about this every time I work on the clutches. That moveable just doesn't want to slide. In tempted to put a thin coating of never seize in there or I thought about using some lapping compound to maybe loosen the tolerances.