Rebound Dampening on Proactive Suspension SUX

[garserio]

Who is unhappy with the rebound dampening on the Proactive rear suspension? I am quite unhappy with this characteristic of the Vector.

In the bumps at higher speeds, the rear skid shock is simply incapable of rebound dampening. The rear of the sled gets pitched up and practically launches you off the seat and over the bars. I find that this causes alot of nosediving off of big bumps.

I run my preload on the Medium setting and I weigh 170lbs. I know Maxxium Performance has an adjustable replacement damper. Has anyone tried this yet? Also, next year's Nytro is offering a remote reservior damper. I would consider swapping one of those in if it works well. Does anyone know if the Nytro rear damper is adjustable?

 

[srvfan]

I second that emotion and so do mu buds who have tried it. Ijust softend the front arm and that's supposed to help if it doesn't my choices are new Ohlins, M-10, or trade for a new Vector GT.

 

[kviper]

Move the bottom stoper ahead or take it out completly, The shock can not control the amount of kick from the bottom stoper's.

 

[Groomerdriver]

The entire rear skid is somewhat suspect to me right now. Granted I only have 244 miles, and my dealer's wrench told me yesterday that he was at Yami tech class and Yami is claiming that it will take up to 800 miles (??!!) for the gas shocks to break in and the insides of them to work right.

RIght now I'd say 90% of the problems are in the shocks, and you can add the front ski shocks to this too. Here's why:

Yesterday I had a friend ride my sled while I rode along side him to watch the action of the rear suspension and front A-arms. GOing thru light to moderate chop, I saw what I've felt riding the sled, very very little travel in both the front arms, and the rear skid.

When I ride the sled, I get very little sensation of the skid going thru the travel, and watch the arms stay pretty much solid while the skis are taking the brunt of the bumps.

Now, the front springs on this sled are soft, but they arent the ones doing the work in the bumps..the shocks do. Same with the rear skid.

People have mentioned Ohlins and M10's. SOunds to me if you want to put 4 Ohlins on, might as well put a M10 or Expert on. Based on what people have said he, it's a foregone conclusion that you want to get rid of the junk rear/rear shock anyway.

Instead of changing all 4 shocks, what about changing the rear/rear and revalving the rest of the shocks? Or..of you wanted to put on different shocks, what about Ryde FX's or similar. Rode for many years and like them.

Hey, I'm not pretending to be an expert...jsut want to generate more discussion out there!!!!

 

[Bakemono]

Im currently riding an '01 Polaris 600 EDGE X and I think that the ProActive rides much better than my EDGE does.
I think that your rebound problems are stemming more from the springs than the shocks.
On the big bumps, the springs snap back so quickly on rebound that the shock doesnt have time to dampen the force of that.
Try playing with the anti-bottoming stoppers or maybe even try putting in softer springs.
Hebi

 

[Groomerdriver]

Im currently riding an '01 Polaris 600 EDGE X and I think that the ProActive rides much better than my EDGE does.
I think that your rebound problems are stemming more from the springs than the shocks.
On the big bumps, the springs snap back so quickly on rebound that the shock doesnt have time to dampen the force of that.
Try playing with the anti-bottoming stoppers or maybe even try putting in softer springs.
Hebi

Hebi - on my RS, the anti bottoms are out, and from a spring standpoint, it seems like my sit-in (am on softest rear setting) is just about right.

Front track shock spring is at full soft. Wonder if one could take off the front track shock spring???....hmmmm

Damn...I read what I write and it sounds like I might not like the sled, which IS NOT the case...I love it!!! An M10 ride is more my style, but I think one can get this skid pretty darn close and still enjoy the transfer that the M10 doesnt have!!!

 

[garserio]

To kviper: I hear you about the anti-bottoming stopper. I removed it and it definitely helped the rebound dampening (Because the spring wasn't being torqued up as much from the long end) However, I was bottoming big time, especially at slower speeds. I am going to re-install them at the softest setting as a compromise.

To hebi: I disagree about the spring rate and going to a lighter spring. You want the stiff spring rate to handle to big bumps. A spring is what actually carries the weight or impact to the sled. A damper controls the rate of how fast a spring is compressed or rebounded. The problem here is that there is insufficient dampening to control the spring rebound acceleration. The energy that has been stored in the spring from being compressed is released too quickly, thus slamming the suspension back into its neutral position. A damper controls that release. The stock damper is simply not capable.

For now, here are our options:

Ohlin claims to have adjustable COMPRESSION dampening. The only adjustable REBOUND dampening shock I know of for this is made by Maxximum Performance. I can't wait to hear about the new Nytro rear damper.

 

[Tfin]

I've had my anti-bottoming stoppers in the most forward (softest) position. Yesterday I removed them all together. I also dialed in 2 more turns of transfer on each controll rod (I was prviously at the stock position).

All I can say is HOLY CRAP, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!

Kick back has been all but eliminated. I could not believe how fast and I could now go through a section of large moguls at speed! I read on here about someone else doing this and was sceptical to say the least. But I could not believe the difference. I now CAN feel the rear skid stroking. I don't even feel the studder bumps, and now have the ability to suck up the larger ones without being bucked off the seat. Increasing the transfer has now allowed both shocks to operate more independantly before the suspension couples.

The only down fall I noticed, is that the suspension WILL bottom on the hardest sucker bums now. I'm going to increase the spring pre-load on the front track shock several turns to see if this helps prevent that a little. I know you want to bottom some times, but I hit the bottom of a steep hill and it bottomed pretty hard.........but granted that was an extreme situation, and not surprising. It did suck up the normal large bumps with ease.

These two changes are so easy to do, I'd recomend everyone to at least try it. If you don't like it, its quick and easy to change back. But you owe it to yourselves to give it a shot.

I'm LOVING my rear skid now!

 

[mc426]

Tfin, what do you have your rear springs set at? I changed mine to soft and was thinking of removing the anti-bottoming stops all together.But I thought that they may need to be set back at medium with the stops removed.Do you have the transfer set at maximum?

 

[Tfin]

I weigh 166 lbs w/out riding gear, and I have the cams for the rear torsion springs set to medium.

I dialed two more turns of transfer into the rods from the stock position. If I'm not at maximum transfer, I must be no more than 1 turn away from it. No more lines are visible on the rods.

 

[Groomerdriver]

I've had my anti-bottoming stoppers in the most forward (softest) position. Yesterday I removed them all together. I also dialed in 2 more turns of transfer on each controll rod (I was prviously at the stock position).

All I can say is HOLY CRAP, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!

Kick back has been all but eliminated. I could not believe how fast and I could now go through a section of large moguls at speed! I read on here about someone else doing this and was sceptical to say the least. But I could not believe the difference. I now CAN feel the rear skid stroking. I don't even feel the studder bumps, and now have the ability to suck up the larger ones without being bucked off the seat. Increasing the transfer has now allowed both shocks to operate more independantly before the suspension couples.

The only down fall I noticed, is that the suspension WILL bottom on the hardest sucker bums now. I'm going to increase the spring pre-load on the front track shock several turns to see if this helps prevent that a little. I know you want to bottom some times, but I hit the bottom of a steep hill and it bottomed pretty hard.........but granted that was an extreme situation, and not surprising. It did suck up the normal large bumps with ease.

These two changes are so easy to do, I'd recomend everyone to at least try it. If you don't like it, its quick and easy to change back. But you owe it to yourselves to give it a shot.

I'm LOVING my rear skid now!

I'm at 2 turn LESS transfer than stock, stoppers removed, rear cams at soft, and front track spring at soft. Based on yours and other posts, less transfer must mean less coupling which means harsher ride.......hmmmm

Have 3 day ride coming this weekend. Am going to: 1. Adjust 4 turns more transfer 2. Assuming increasing preload on front track shock spring increases ski pressure, going to tighten that up 3 turns 3. Going to tighten ski shock springs from full soft to 1/2 way to full tight.

While letting the weight transfer, gotta do something(s) to keep the skis from lifting as much as possible.

I'm gonna call Max Perf and talk to them about shocks..

Great discussion everybody!!! It's certainly helping me!

 

[SKIDOZER]

THE REAR SHOCK stinks it cant handle the rebound from the bottom stoppers.
I moved the bottom stoppers tword the back not the front and it rides better.
I noticed when a 300# friend was sitting on my sled it contacts the stopper sooner when tword the front.
I want to put a high pressure gas shock that i can have valved to my spec like my mxz had

 

[Tfin]

I'm at 2 turn LESS transfer than stock, stoppers removed, rear cams at soft, and front track spring at soft. Based on yours and other posts, less transfer must mean less coupling which means harsher ride.......hmmmm

Have 3 day ride coming this weekend. Am going to: 1. Adjust 4 turns more transfer 2. Assuming increasing preload on front track shock spring increases ski pressure, going to tighten that up 3 turns 3. Going to tighten ski shock springs from full soft to 1/2 way to full tight.

While letting the weight transfer, gotta do something(s) to keep the skis from lifting as much as possible.

I'm gonna call Max Perf and talk to them about shocks..

Great discussion everybody!!! It's certainly helping me!

Everything sounds correct, except that I BELIEVE increasing the spring pre-load of the front track shock decreases ski pressure.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

Yesterday I notice that my inside ski lift isn't so much coming from exitting corners under acceleration, as its simply from the weight of the sled being thrown to the outside of the corner. Since the pre-load of the springs on the skis are so stiff........they're resisting the weight of the sled, which I feel alows the inside ski to rise.

My thinking is if I loosen the ski spring pre-load tension, this will allow the springs and shocks to absorb the weight of the sled that is being shifted to the outside of the corner, and thus eliminating the inside ski lift.

Anyone care to comment on this?

 

[Groomerdriver]

I'm at 2 turn LESS transfer than stock, stoppers removed, rear cams at soft, and front track spring at soft. Based on yours and other posts, less transfer must mean less coupling which means harsher ride.......hmmmm

Have 3 day ride coming this weekend. Am going to: 1. Adjust 4 turns more transfer 2. Assuming increasing preload on front track shock spring increases ski pressure, going to tighten that up 3 turns 3. Going to tighten ski shock springs from full soft to 1/2 way to full tight.

While letting the weight transfer, gotta do something(s) to keep the skis from lifting as much as possible.

I'm gonna call Max Perf and talk to them about shocks..

Great discussion everybody!!! It's certainly helping me!

Everything sounds correct, except that I BELIEVE increasing the spring pre-load of the front track shock decreases ski pressure.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

Yesterday I notice that my inside ski lift isn't so much coming from exitting corners under acceleration, as its simply from the weight of the sled being thrown to the outside of the corner. Since the pre-load of the springs on the skis are so stiff........they're resisting the weight of the sled, which I feel alows the inside ski to rise.

My thinking is if I loosen the ski spring pre-load tension, this will allow the springs and shocks to absorb the weight of the sled that is being shifted to the outside of the corner, and thus eliminating the inside ski lift.

Anyone care to comment on this?

Tfin - I feel that the front springs are TOO SOFT. If you tighten the ski spring preload, you get increased ski pressure, and the increased preload prevents the front end from leaning in turns. At least this is how it was on all my Poo's. You want the spring to be pushing back against the weight being applied to it.

It seems like one has relatively very little adjustment in the front springs. Look at how many threads would be available if you had a taller spring. Obviously the dia of the coil plays intot he equation, but I'm used to having more adjustability in the front springs.

I'm also curious now about the front track spring and what will happen if you tighten it.

 

[Tfin]

Tfin - I feel that the front springs are TOO SOFT. If you tighten the ski spring preload, you get increased ski pressure, and the increased preload prevents the front end from leaning in turns. At least this is how it was on all my Poo's. You want the spring to be pushing back against the weight being applied to it.

It seems like one has relatively very little adjustment in the front springs. Look at how many threads would be available if you had a taller spring. Obviously the dia of the coil plays intot he equation, but I'm used to having more adjustability in the front springs.

I'm also curious now about the front track spring and what will happen if you tighten it.

Hmmmmmm, now that I think about it, you may be right on this. I guess I'm just going to have to do some experimentation to find out what produces my desired results for the front end.

But what I've changed so far in the rear skid, definatley works for the way I ride, and I couldn't be happier with its capabilies now.