should there be a new model?

[mud99]

What Yamaha is missing is a high HP mountain sled, in a rider-forward chassis, with less bells and whistles (lighter seat, exhaust, etc..)

Something like an Apex, but they need to embrace the "less is more" philosophy.

Perhaps go to the extreme and build it on a tube chassis to save weight.

It should look like a custom sled out of the crate.

Mark

 

[Puppe]

2012 Coming one chassis for all models from Yamaha.
A lot cheaper production but why it took so many years to figure this out?
BRP has saved s*it load of money with Rev & XP chassis.
Ok, Poo has now Rush but that thing is fugly and only for groomed trails.

 

[SledFreak]

I think that is what Yammie is trying to do with the New Apex, improve what wasn't right.

However if it had 170 HP out of the box (do the all the changes they made plus make it 1049cc), and I would have been a lot happier.

They haven't changed the power to weight ratio since 1995 and the V-max 4 800. The sleds ride a lot better now, but don't handle any better as we have to deal with the higher center of gravity, and aren't really any faster.

On my test ride of the 2011 it was very nice sled, but it wasn't thrilling. I was following CR who was riding my 4 stroke Venture (with Excel mid-pipe) and as we let er rip across a nice long smooth trail in a farmers field, as we got up over 150kph I was catching him, but it wasn't like I was going to blow past him, it just felt a little faster, nice but not thrilling.

For $16,500 in Canada I want thrilling. I could have lived with the dated looking sled if they had given us a real power boost of 15-20%.

For 2012 I don't need them to bring a new sled, but if they took the APEX to 170-180 in a 1049cc (unlikely so soon after the 2011 changes) that would be okay.

Alternatively, if they focused a bit on the Nytro and gave it the hop up treatment that could work as well.

Try to take 20 lbs out of it, and add 20 HP to put it in the 155-160 range of 800 Etec and Cat 800.

It would not be that Hard with the Nytro, it's Compression Ratio is relatively low, we know it likes a more open exhaust (use EXUP to get past the Sound Regs) and there is more to be had in the Cylinder head, add an Knock Sensor spin it a few 100 revs higher and 155-160 should be easily possible.

No need to change the chasis(other than make the tank bigger, put more fuel under the seat to lower the CofG), just add a bunch more power.

Well said..... The Apex should have been 170-180hp and price would not have mattered. Adding 10hp was a big let down.

The Nytro for sure would be nice with a 20lb weight reduction and a 150-160hp. (Hopefully my next sled.) Plus, setup with a nice trail package in the handling and ride department with EXUP, EPS, 128" track and it would be just awesome. Maybe a little better design on the front end for better wind protection and you will have a clear winner. I think the Nytro is an awesome sled. There are issues with it, just like the Apex, but It's not front end heavy like the Apex and is a blast in the trails. It's way more fun then an Apex.

They need to aboard the 4 cylinder.... It's too heavy and they are wasting to much time and effort on a boat anchor.

 

[Maxout01]

2012 Coming one chassis for all models from Yamaha.
A lot cheaper production but why it took so many years to figure this out?
BRP has saved s*it load of money with Rev & XP chassis.
Ok, Poo has now Rush but that thing is fugly and only for groomed trails.

They are past the point to create one chassis. Alot of people are with yamaha because they have three different chassis to chose from. Yea the rev and xp's saved doo $$ but theres still alot of people who just dont like riding over the motor, myself included. I rode 2,800 miles on my rev and just got sick of it. I love the seat position on my apex. Also the nytro chassis seems to be hated by as many who love it and thats their newest chassis. If they chose to go only that route, they will lose alot of people to doo and other manufacturers. I really dont see them doing so. They need to dump the phazer completely and give a better entry level sled that isnt so "radical" and is more traditional with alittle more power. They have the apex, vector, nytro which are solid sleds for their categories, then the phazer just kinda hangs there like a dirt bike.. Yamaha is giving out on the biggest segment of sleds with not having a good solid traditional entry/ slight mid level sled thats good power, good mpg, good relability etc. The phazer is too far out to fill this void.
It seems more times then not people looking for a sled in the lower catagory go more with other manufacturaers becasue the phazer is cool, but its more for the younger crew, motocross style rider, not the slow trail cruiser, wife, kids, work style sled. My local yamaha dealer tried to get his wife and kids on the phazer.. they all hate it. Unfortunately even though he owns a yamaha only dealer, the wife has a doo 550f mxz, and the kids are on 500ss tnt's.. talk about sad..
The phazer back in the day was a much more adapt sled for what catagory it was in. They need to bring that home again. The phazer was a cool sled, but too much for where it needs to be. Also it seems its got a huge amount of issues from all the reads i've seen on here about it, and all the people i talk to who own one.

 

[bottlerocket]

Hope Yamaha is listening to you guys. I dont know how they ever made money without these great ideas....lol

 

[mud99]

The Phazer is a great sled when you consider the price, we got ours new for $5000 with a 4 year warranty. It has more than exceeded our expectations for that price. It is exactly the sled it should be for $5K, and I bet they will still be making it in 10 years.

It's a low end sled for sure without big HP, but it's fun and easy to ride and doesn't require a magic thumb like the Apex.

Definitely a winner in my book, AFAIK it is the nimblest 4 stroke ever made.

Mark

 

[srvfan]

Yup phazer is a great sled for the money For those who want to ride a sled that is like a dirt bike. Great for off trail riding bouncing around some fields etc. Now come out to the U.P or out in New England or Quebec where LOTS of sleds are sold and try and trail ride the Phazer 200-300 miles sitting down on -5f day. Seat is too narrow and too hard sled is tippy and has 0 wind protection. keep in mind our trails are groomed but still get sharp edged bumps they are as hard as concrete.

it's not a bad sled it just fits an extreemly narrow rider demographic. They could leave it but add a model based on the Phazer with a bigger tank,seat,windprotection and softer trail suspension.
Think something like a Venture light with a shorter track. They could sell that for Phazer money and sell a ton of them From Michigan to Maine.

 

[Maxout01]

Great for off trail riding bouncing around some fields etc. Now come out to the U.P or out in New England or Quebec where LOTS of sleds are sold and try and trail ride the Phazer 200-300 miles sitting down on -5f day. Seat is too narrow and too hard sled is tippy and has 0 wind protection. keep in mind our trails are groomed but still get sharp edged bumps they are as hard as concrete.

it's not a bad sled it just fits an extreemly narrow rider demographic. They could leave it but add a model based on the Phazer with a bigger tank,seat,windprotection and softer trail suspension.
Think something like a Venture light with a shorter track. They could sell that for Phazer money and sell a ton of them From Michigan to Maine.

you made my points of the phazer exactly. Its a great sled, but only great for a small demogrphic. They need to make it fit a much bigger demographic, or keep it the same and make another version of it.
They could easily do so. Almost like an mxz/gsx comparo, same sled with enough differences to appeal to much bigger demographics.

 

[danq]

they re missing a sit down trail sled in the 80-100hp range with good wind protection. Sell that for the Phazer price and watch it outsell the Phazer 3 to 1.

I agree, the demographics of sled riders is getting older. As they age they are not getting more athletic and won't even consider a rider forward sled like phaser, nytro, or Rev. Some of the older members in my club consider an apex too rider forward, too tippy, and too expensive and won't even test ride. Give them an economical sit down sled and I bet they would consider replacing their old polaris edge chassis...

 

[kinger]

Awnser to this post topic is Yamaha should have another model...NO

What the heck do you people want? More models, more options, and less prices?... it doesn't add up.

If anything I want less models to reduce thier tooling and inventory levels so that the models they do have are cheaper then what they are now.

 

[MT RX1 Mountain Man]

What Yamaha is missing is a high HP mountain sled, in a rider-forward chassis, with less bells and whistles (lighter seat, exhaust, etc..)

Something like an Apex, but they need to embrace the "less is more" philosophy.

Perhaps go to the extreme and build it on a tube chassis to save weight.

It should look like a custom sled out of the crate.

Mark

I don't want anything more forward than the APEX. I am happy with what I have, however, I can what if here to. Take the new Apex use the current Apex MTX rails with the Nytro MTX SE Pro-Mountain Air shocks, choice of 15 or 16 wide track X 162, at least make the Yamacharger and a programmer an option/accessory. Maybe go so far as to make a "Shift" version, a stripped down version and up the options and accessories available to keep purchase and setup costs down. I am not at all a fan of the Nytro and after the Phazer the wife had they should no longer call the 144 an MTX...it's an insult to mountain riders everywhere

 

[kviper]

Well i don't know where to start on all this so i will just start. Every one has there own riding style's, Favorite riding condition's and mostly THERE! want's. One chassis does not cover every aspect of snowmobiling, or one seat, Handlebar's, Ski's, Tank, Etc. Custom sled's are very expensive!! I know Yamaha does a lot of survey's and research on what people want even though it may not cover what you as an individual want's so they can catch as much of the market share as possible. The economy and Yen vs Dollar play a huge roll in all of this and is hitting Yamaha hard with the current situation. I would bet if the current economy does not change by the 12 release you will not see anything big for another year. I have an 07 Phazer for my son and IMOP with a trail friendly seat, a plusher calibration in the suspension area (maybe a Mono skid) and maybe a little more wind protection and it would be a winner. By the way Yamaha is looking in to a trail seat for the Phazer for next season. The last time i talked to some one in the know they were not sure on the seat yet. kviper

 

[Maxout01]

Awnser to this post topic is Yamaha should have another model...NO

What the heck do you people want? More models, more options, and less prices?... it doesn't add up.

If anything I want less models to reduce thier tooling and inventory levels so that the models they do have are cheaper then what they are now.

I agree with you, but every other manufacturer has many options, so yamaha needs that as well in order to compete. Also I think they need more model revamps then actually a new model.

 

[Mtnviper]

I would like to see a 110-115 hp class sled added to the line up.
A buddy has a Mtn-lite, it rides good, handles great and is fun to ride. He gets around pretty good on it, however he said there are times when he could use a little more power for the mountains. I figure 110-115 hp would be just about right for the Phazer chasis.
There are customers out there, who want a second sled for the wife or a teenager. I think that a 110-115 hp class Phazer type of sled would do well in this market. Give the customer a nice four stroke opition, instead of having to settle for another brand's two stroke.
Wouldn't even have to re-invent the wheel, just put a 600-700CC four stroke twin in the Phazer.

 

[Yamadog]

The more models they have the more the resources are divided on engineering. If they only sold 3000 sleds last year I am surprised we even get what we have. It was not long ago if you discounted the Viking we had a 500 twin, 600 and 700 triples in various configs but all on the same chasis.

In my opinion they have tried to listen to us bicker to well. Since 2003 we have had RX-1 121", 136" and Mountain, Apex (RTX, GT, ER & Mtn), Attack (GT, ER), vector (RTX, GT, ER & Mtn set ups) , Nytro ( 121", 144 tipped up 2 mountain versions) , Phaser in several versions from 121" to 150 something.

Good Golly Miss Molly - what happened to the old days when I had my SX700 and DX 600 loaded the 2 place open and headed out in a blizzard only to return a week later with 400 total miles and memories of a wonderful week.

Now Im in a 5 place enclosed with a 6th in the bed of the truck and am pissed if I only do 300 miles a day and when I get home I have a full week of wrenching and duct tape just to get ready for the next trip.