should there be a new model?

[mx1500]

i got thinking.
its been 4 years since yamaha introduced a new plat form besides the phazer in 2007. I think they have been keeping all the old plat form/ phazer/nytro/venture for so long and did very few changes to them because they are going to introduce a new chassis in 2012. this is just thoughts

 

[Vectornut]

I totally agree. I think variable exhaust and EPS on the Apex is just a prelude to some big new products coming up for 2012.

 

[strangeland2]

Isnt the Nytro only 3 years old? I thought it came out in 08.

 

[pat the rat]

4 years is nothing,look at the firecat chassis,started in 2003 and they are still using it,that's 9 years,we drive the prices up by constantly demanding more from the manufacturers

 

[Maxout01]

4 years is nothing,look at the firecat chassis,started in 2003 and they are still using it,that's 9 years,we drive the prices up by constantly demanding more from the manufacturers

x2 how much do we need from a snowmobile? all it has to do is go down the trail. It pisses me off with all the complaining people do (not this thread, just in general) about how much more we need from a sled.. riding is fun no matter what we are on. If it cost me more then a used car, its no longer any fun.

 

[Riceburner]

i got thinking.
its been 4 years since yamaha introduced a new plat form besides the phazer in 2007. I think they have been keeping all the old plat form/ phazer/nytro/venture for so long and did very few changes to them because they are going to introduce a new chassis in 2012. this is just thoughts

Chris pretty much told us months ago not to look for much in 2012.

Next sled needs to be a 80 to 100 hp trail sled. Phazer's do not cut it for most trail riders.

 

[mx1500]

exactly. just the phazer maybe needs to offer a bigger track and maybe a bigger engine

 

[Maxout01]

if anything they need the phazer to be less dirt bike, and more rider freindly. For the hp class its in its not very liked by people in the class as compared to what it really should be.

 

[BombaPolaYama]

4 years is nothing,look at the firecat chassis,started in 2003 and they are still using it,that's 9 years,we drive the prices up by constantly demanding more from the manufacturers

x2 how much do we need from a snowmobile? all it has to do is go down the trail. It pisses me off with all the complaining people do (not this thread, just in general) about how much more we need from a sled.. riding is fun no matter what we are on. If it cost me more then a used car, its no longer any fun.

Good points - it is human nature to always want something more and something new. That's materialism, and it's a big part of what drives our economy (good or bad). We are no longer interested in the Volkswagen type economy (mass produced and cheap), therefore, we are always trying to "keep up with the Joneses" and paying high prices for things we don't really need.

On the other hand though, if a producer does not change with the times and provide what people demand, they will soon be outta the game.

 

[AKrider]

That is the trend I keep noticing in the print mags. Blame us consumers for wanting more, wanting new stuff, wanting better this or that. I think it is BS! Back in the 80's, I was pretty content riding my Indy. Back then a new engine was BIG news. Tiny improvements were worth a lot of discussion between me and my buddies. I mean, how cool was the new style '88 cowling, nose cone, and gauge cluster! What was the best was we could buy those parts and update our old sleds if we chose to. But, probably the biggest thing is the Indy handled well, rode awesome and we were not fighting the sled like I'm doing 20-25 odd years later.

Nowadays it seems like the OEM's release sleds without fully testing them and once we get them sorted out they drop it and release a brand new model. I'd be happy if they introduce some refinements and fix the weak points of our existing models. Upgrading an older sled is cheaper for both us and the OEM. I'll be happy if things stagnate for a while and we sort out what we've got before starting off on yet another brand new, 600cc class sled that MSRP's for over $10,000.

 

[morrisond]

I think that is what Yammie is trying to do with the New Apex, improve what wasn't right.

However if it had 170 HP out of the box (do the all the changes they made plus make it 1049cc), and I would have been a lot happier.

They haven't changed the power to weight ratio since 1995 and the V-max 4 800. The sleds ride a lot better now, but don't handle any better as we have to deal with the higher center of gravity, and aren't really any faster.

On my test ride of the 2011 it was very nice sled, but it wasn't thrilling. I was following CR who was riding my 4 stroke Venture (with Excel mid-pipe) and as we let er rip across a nice long smooth trail in a farmers field, as we got up over 150kph I was catching him, but it wasn't like I was going to blow past him, it just felt a little faster, nice but not thrilling.

For $16,500 in Canada I want thrilling. I could have lived with the dated looking sled if they had given us a real power boost of 15-20%.

For 2012 I don't need them to bring a new sled, but if they took the APEX to 170-180 in a 1049cc (unlikely so soon after the 2011 changes) that would be okay.

Alternatively, if they focused a bit on the Nytro and gave it the hop up treatment that could work as well.

Try to take 20 lbs out of it, and add 20 HP to put it in the 155-160 range of 800 Etec and Cat 800.

It would not be that Hard with the Nytro, it's Compression Ratio is relatively low, we know it likes a more open exhaust (use EXUP to get past the Sound Regs) and there is more to be had in the Cylinder head, add an Knock Sensor spin it a few 100 revs higher and 155-160 should be easily possible.

No need to change the chasis(other than make the tank bigger, put more fuel under the seat to lower the CofG), just add a bunch more power.

 

[strangeland2]

I think that is what Yammie is trying to do with the New Apex, improve what wasn't right.

However if it had 170 HP out of the box (do the all the changes they made plus make it 1049cc), and I would have been a lot happier.

They haven't changed the power to weight ratio since 1995 and the V-max 4 800. The sleds ride a lot better now, but don't handle any better as we have to deal with the higher center of gravity, and aren't really any faster.

On my test ride of the 2011 it was very nice sled, but it wasn't thrilling. I was following CR who was riding my 4 stroke Venture (with Excel mid-pipe) and as we let er rip across a nice long smooth trail in a farmers field, as we got up over 150kph I was catching him, but it wasn't like I was going to blow past him, it just felt a little faster, nice but not thrilling.

For $16,500 in Canada I want thrilling. I could have lived with the dated looking sled if they had given us a real power boost of 15-20%.

For 2012 I don't need them to bring a new sled, but if they took the APEX to 170-180 in a 1049cc (unlikely so soon after the 2011 changes) that would be okay.

Alternatively, if they focused a bit on the Nytro and gave it the hop up treatment that could work as well.

Try to take 20 lbs out of it, and add 20 HP to put it in the 155-160 range of 800 Etec and Cat 800.

It would not be that Hard with the Nytro, it's Compression Ratio is relatively low, we know it likes a more open exhaust (use EXUP to get past the Sound Regs) and there is more to be had in the Cylinder head, add an Knock Sensor spin it a few 100 revs higher and 155-160 should be easily possible.

No need to change the chasis(other than make the tank bigger, put more fuel under the seat to lower the CofG), just add a bunch more power.

That all just sounds really expensive by the time it hits consumers. New chassis or not price would be raised significantly with all that.

 

[morrisond]

Well they can not worry about taking the 20 lbs out of it. The Rev has gotten a lot heavier, with the XP 800 etec now at close to 480 with e-start, the Nytro is only about 10% more, it just lacks in top end power.

The engine mods would be relatively inexpensive, the technology exists, just take it from the Apex and add it to the Nytro.

New Pistons, exhaust with Exup, intake mods and a knock Sensor should get you easily over 150hp. No need for a new block or head or anything else.

 

[Metallicat]

4 years is nothing,look at the firecat chassis,started in 2003 and they are still using it,that's 9 years,we drive the prices up by constantly demanding more from the manufacturers

Apex chassis also started in 2003 on the RX1. They updated it in 2006 with new plastic, seat, forward steering mount, etc but it is still basically the same chassis.

 

[srvfan]

they re missing a sit down trail sled in the 80-100hp range with good wind protection. Sell that for the Phazer price and watch it outsell the Phazer 3 to 1.