srxtwins
Expert
Very sobering post(no pun intended). Once again I feel compelled to shoot my mouth off.First about the original post,alchol involvement no matter how little does not mix with a machine that can be considered comparable to an indy car in its performance characteristics.Secondly at 5 years experience this poor fellow is still wet behind the ears so far as I am concerned you cannot learn all that in needed to handle these high performance machines in that time.Riders such as many of us that have 20 years or more of experience still learn new tricks on how to handle these machines.To handle one of these high performance machines on a trail requires ABSOLUTE concentration and attention when traveling at any significant speed.As I have stated in another post these are off road vehicles and accidents can and will happen. The more you ride the greater your odds of missfortune become.As many of you now know my turn came after 25 years of riding (glad to be alive and able to bitch about it).Even though it may not look like it,I learnt much from the experience.
Ok. This is going to be hard to say. My apolgies in advance, it is not my intention to offend anyone but the last ty ride we all enjoyed was brought into this. I know Tom's fears about an accident. When this ride was put together emergency services were notified so they could give us the best resonse possible should there have been an incident.Having put this ride together I spent a great deal of time fearing for everyones safety because like Tom had said if someone had gotten hurt or worse that would be a terrible feeling to have in the pit of your stomach forever. Fortunaly our group seemed to consist of very expereinced rides and/or ones that knew thier limits.For that I would like to thank you all.
I realize that because of the smooth trails some of us got carried away with going fast, myself included. I promise more site seeing next time as there was many things and sights I would have been very happy to share with you all.
This is where it gets tricky,I do not want to be critical of what others do but here goes. I noted at lunck some had a beverage which caused me great concern. I know that even 1 drink changes how you handle your equipment..I know this from experience and was still sober enough to have caught myself driving slightly different after just one drink.
Everyone must remember being able to go home safe after a ride is the single most important factor in making any ride a great ride.For the peace of mind of all ride organizers and Tom himself I would like to suggest that all future ty rides have a standing rule of absolutely no alcohol until the machines are parked for the night. As the rides get bigger and the numbers increase so do the risks we do not need to compound the problem by adding alcohol.
All ty riders please use your heads because as an organizer of a ty ride I have no desire to trade the wonderful feeling I had watching everyone leave with a big smile on there faces.
Ok. This is going to be hard to say. My apolgies in advance, it is not my intention to offend anyone but the last ty ride we all enjoyed was brought into this. I know Tom's fears about an accident. When this ride was put together emergency services were notified so they could give us the best resonse possible should there have been an incident.Having put this ride together I spent a great deal of time fearing for everyones safety because like Tom had said if someone had gotten hurt or worse that would be a terrible feeling to have in the pit of your stomach forever. Fortunaly our group seemed to consist of very expereinced rides and/or ones that knew thier limits.For that I would like to thank you all.
I realize that because of the smooth trails some of us got carried away with going fast, myself included. I promise more site seeing next time as there was many things and sights I would have been very happy to share with you all.
This is where it gets tricky,I do not want to be critical of what others do but here goes. I noted at lunck some had a beverage which caused me great concern. I know that even 1 drink changes how you handle your equipment..I know this from experience and was still sober enough to have caught myself driving slightly different after just one drink.
Everyone must remember being able to go home safe after a ride is the single most important factor in making any ride a great ride.For the peace of mind of all ride organizers and Tom himself I would like to suggest that all future ty rides have a standing rule of absolutely no alcohol until the machines are parked for the night. As the rides get bigger and the numbers increase so do the risks we do not need to compound the problem by adding alcohol.
All ty riders please use your heads because as an organizer of a ty ride I have no desire to trade the wonderful feeling I had watching everyone leave with a big smile on there faces.
4Fighter
TY 4 Stroke God
MrSled said:I don't even know what to say. You may all think I'm a big sap, but as I read that, thinking of my children, and what they could miss if their dad was gone, and all the great friends I have made through this site, it brought me to tears...Thank you so much for posting this. I will make it sticky.
:ORC Ditto!
SnowdemonsRX1
Extreme
I agree with you! I took my dad up to the U.P. for the first time since 1988. We stopped for lunch and he started drinking 7&7's. When the first drink was done he wanted another and I said what the 
you want to get killed, I told him about the cops and what they do now and how much faster my souped up 800 storm is than your ol'1985 600 indy was. He pissed and moaned then the waitress caught wind of our convo and started telling stories about drunks and sleds. :shock: I agree 100% drink when you are done for the day. Hell I like drinks as much as anyone, but I like my sled a whole lot more. 
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Convert and MrSled - Boy, this is so true, how just a little infraction, can add up to soo much! As Convert stated, I have fun where fun is intended to be, and am courteous to others when that time comes. I like to be a speed demon now and then, and I can say this for a lot of people, but the corner I missed this last weekend, was a sharp corner entering the woods, and just missed the corner. But what if this was a drop off, like what we see on a riverbank, huge hill, or a seasonal road like the one up by Copper Harbor, Michigan, my life would have been ended there. I think of these situations everytime I get on my sled, and I can definetly say I use hand signals all of the time. Some think I am pretending to be a bird, or whatever, but I respect others and their life also.
Terry
NOS-PRO
Convert
Terry
NOS-PRO
Convert
SnowdemonsRX1
Extreme
I say state law should be 0 tolerance,
Tom has already posted the rules for the TY rides and in #1 position is NO DRINKING. It is up to all of us to enforce the rules and too discourage others from breaking them. No one should be on a sled with any amount of alcohol in their system period.
Here is the link: http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=8418
srxtwins you put a lot of hard work and effort to make the Manitoba TY ride a success and it was. Glad to hear there will be a more site seeing for next year. Thanks for all your hard work and we will be coming back next year! Look for the group to be well over 50 sleds next year.
Here is the link: http://www.rx1.info/viewtopic.php?t=8418
srxtwins you put a lot of hard work and effort to make the Manitoba TY ride a success and it was. Glad to hear there will be a more site seeing for next year. Thanks for all your hard work and we will be coming back next year! Look for the group to be well over 50 sleds next year.
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Brian - That is why our time shared togather was a big success. The drinking was held off till after our sleds were parked. Now I didn't see myself who would have had one or two, but if I would have seen them, I would have said something to them, like, can't we wait till the hot tub, or the pool maybe?
Brian - I know you have heard this many times, but thanks for the awesome TY ride in Manitoba. You are a great leader, and will see you again next year.
Brian - I know you have heard this many times, but thanks for the awesome TY ride in Manitoba. You are a great leader, and will see you again next year.
It's been said "A bad day of riding is better than a good day at work", I'll add "Unless you kill yourself" . All us girls want our men to come home safe, please take care.
smokeless1
Pro
I want to add a couple things here.
First, I no longer use the trail systems. Yes I get on for a short distance, but I get off them as soon as I can...why?? Because I am tired of wondering if this next rise, or turn will be the ONE! Too many close calls where I was so far on my side that I was basically off in the bush. Not fun, scarry, got too much to do in my life time to take it because some idiot forgot about the fact that HE/SHE might NOT be the only one on the trail.
Secondly, there is something from the first post missing. That guy, nice fellow, great provider, was NOT alone on that ride. HE was in company of friends family etc. Those guys/gals should be the ones who should be pressed to the limits. As some of these posts indicate you see somebody tossing them down and about to get back on for the "second half" well. Friends are not really friends are they, if they let that guy get back on. If they didn't walk up and say..."what are you doing man." It is no different that hitting the bars, except that you use a car instead of a higher level of difficulty piece of machinery.
You know you need to police each other. It is up to you to accept it or do something about it. Stop invitin somebody who can't respect the speed/drink issue. Get in their face. Make it tough. Remember as those here have attested, once you see death needless death, you are forever changed. Forever is forever. I know I am. I know there those out there who need to have somebody who knows better, face the tough job of self imposed policing. Fella with Dad doing the mid day drinking should NOT need the police as a deterient, he should simply say, NOT WHILE YOUR GOIN WITH ME...YOUR NOT. It takes guts, but not as many guts as it takes to go to a furneral, see the wife in black, or the kids who will never know what Daddy was really like. Nope....go take a good look in the mirror. It is YOU who needs to step up and say.. Stop. If the first poster had done that, maybe the accident would have still happened, but maybe he would not be having nightmares about it or selling his last sled. It coulb be you next....God gives us all a noodle. But he leaves it up to us to use it. Next time you see it happening, just step up to the plate and be the big guy who uses the noodle.
First, I no longer use the trail systems. Yes I get on for a short distance, but I get off them as soon as I can...why?? Because I am tired of wondering if this next rise, or turn will be the ONE! Too many close calls where I was so far on my side that I was basically off in the bush. Not fun, scarry, got too much to do in my life time to take it because some idiot forgot about the fact that HE/SHE might NOT be the only one on the trail.
Secondly, there is something from the first post missing. That guy, nice fellow, great provider, was NOT alone on that ride. HE was in company of friends family etc. Those guys/gals should be the ones who should be pressed to the limits. As some of these posts indicate you see somebody tossing them down and about to get back on for the "second half" well. Friends are not really friends are they, if they let that guy get back on. If they didn't walk up and say..."what are you doing man." It is no different that hitting the bars, except that you use a car instead of a higher level of difficulty piece of machinery.
You know you need to police each other. It is up to you to accept it or do something about it. Stop invitin somebody who can't respect the speed/drink issue. Get in their face. Make it tough. Remember as those here have attested, once you see death needless death, you are forever changed. Forever is forever. I know I am. I know there those out there who need to have somebody who knows better, face the tough job of self imposed policing. Fella with Dad doing the mid day drinking should NOT need the police as a deterient, he should simply say, NOT WHILE YOUR GOIN WITH ME...YOUR NOT. It takes guts, but not as many guts as it takes to go to a furneral, see the wife in black, or the kids who will never know what Daddy was really like. Nope....go take a good look in the mirror. It is YOU who needs to step up and say.. Stop. If the first poster had done that, maybe the accident would have still happened, but maybe he would not be having nightmares about it or selling his last sled. It coulb be you next....God gives us all a noodle. But he leaves it up to us to use it. Next time you see it happening, just step up to the plate and be the big guy who uses the noodle.
Grassfirebob
Pro
Ok, enough blaming alcohol for all the stupid accidents and deaths.
Bottom line in this case was that he hit a STUMP under the snow on the trail while going too fast. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference if he had one beer or 10. He didn't come across the stump under the snow because he'd been drinking. It's not as if he swerved and hit someone because he'd been drinking.
In statistical terms, there was a "correlation", but not a "causation" in this case. Just as if it rains within one day everytime I wash my car - I could show a "correlation" but it would be absurd to say that washing my car "CAUSED" the rain.
We all want to blame alcohol rather than speed because most ALL OF US SPEED. So if we just conveniently blame alcohol instead, we're off the hook.
I've ridden sleds for 30years and yes I've seen my share of drunken, stupid accidents that were truly CAUSED by alcohol. But to be honest, I've seen far more where the CAUSE was speed.
I ride with a group that does not ride fast. We've ridden together for years. We just spent 3 days riding in the Two Harbors/Grand Marais, MN. Our average trail speed was 30-35mph. Yes, we stopped and drank a few along the way - but in a 10hour riding day none of us would've even come close to the .08 limit. I consider our group infinitely safer than a group of high-speed, totally sober, trail idiots.
Again, I'm not defending getting drunk and riding. Just giving a different perspective.
Ok, let the flames begin ;-)
Bottom line in this case was that he hit a STUMP under the snow on the trail while going too fast. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference if he had one beer or 10. He didn't come across the stump under the snow because he'd been drinking. It's not as if he swerved and hit someone because he'd been drinking.
In statistical terms, there was a "correlation", but not a "causation" in this case. Just as if it rains within one day everytime I wash my car - I could show a "correlation" but it would be absurd to say that washing my car "CAUSED" the rain.
We all want to blame alcohol rather than speed because most ALL OF US SPEED. So if we just conveniently blame alcohol instead, we're off the hook.
I've ridden sleds for 30years and yes I've seen my share of drunken, stupid accidents that were truly CAUSED by alcohol. But to be honest, I've seen far more where the CAUSE was speed.
I ride with a group that does not ride fast. We've ridden together for years. We just spent 3 days riding in the Two Harbors/Grand Marais, MN. Our average trail speed was 30-35mph. Yes, we stopped and drank a few along the way - but in a 10hour riding day none of us would've even come close to the .08 limit. I consider our group infinitely safer than a group of high-speed, totally sober, trail idiots.
Again, I'm not defending getting drunk and riding. Just giving a different perspective.
Ok, let the flames begin ;-)
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
SRXTwins, you did a great job organizing the trip and you are right that alcohol and sleds don't mix. But don't forget about riding the butts of those Cat guys on the river. We were ALL going fast and thankfully nothing bad happened.
I flipped a sled once and no alcohol was involved. It bang up the sled and my knee and shoulders were pretty bruised too. These things happen and you need to know your limitations. It was my wake up call.
Good post hahler2.
I flipped a sled once and no alcohol was involved. It bang up the sled and my knee and shoulders were pretty bruised too. These things happen and you need to know your limitations. It was my wake up call.
Good post hahler2.
F1Rocks
Veteran
My one ride of the season this year on the Gunflint heading to Sag at 10:00 at night. Didn't know the trail, don't drink but was riding too fast for the corners. Only made 90 degrees of a 120 degree off camber corner. Drove off the side of the ravine sideways, a tree kicked the sled so I was driving straight down the ravine at 30...snapping off 4 inch saplings all the way down. It happens so fast you don't realize the mistake until it's too late. I flew over the front of the sled but while I flew over the front I turned the key off with my boot (unknowingly of course) and flipped the key out of the ignition. Fortunate I guess that I did that because my helmet was under the front bumper with my head still in it when we finally came to rest.
My buddy behind followed me (just a little slower) into the ravine.
We had to do the 7 mile walk of shame back to the lodge and took us 4 hours to winch them out the next day. In the daylight I missed a 3ft oak by not much.
Good news is we hotwired the sled and it ran fine for the rest of the week but more importantly I realized once again how important safety is. I love to open her up but in the right places.
Oh yeah, always bring a spare key even on the trail!
My buddy behind followed me (just a little slower) into the ravine.
We had to do the 7 mile walk of shame back to the lodge and took us 4 hours to winch them out the next day. In the daylight I missed a 3ft oak by not much.
Good news is we hotwired the sled and it ran fine for the rest of the week but more importantly I realized once again how important safety is. I love to open her up but in the right places.
Oh yeah, always bring a spare key even on the trail!
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
No flames from me Bob, I agree. Just because you skipped that beer or are keeping the speed down dont ever think you are safe. At something like 18+ Mph hitting your head on a stationary object the right way can kill you even though you are wearing a helmet.
Bluedog's friend did a jump, nothing radical, but his chest hit the handlebars in the perfect way to tear his aorta and he died on the spot. I think Blue said the handlebars were not even bent.
I have yet to see Bluedog near his sled without him wearing his Tec Vest and it is because of the loss of his friend. He makes his son Ryan wear one too
hahler2, beautifully written story so very tragic that it is.
MrSled, you summed up my fellings about my family perfectly and it brought tears to my eyes also.
MrSled thank you for the safety forum. If you can do that one in red letters that would be great.
Bluedog's friend did a jump, nothing radical, but his chest hit the handlebars in the perfect way to tear his aorta and he died on the spot. I think Blue said the handlebars were not even bent.
I have yet to see Bluedog near his sled without him wearing his Tec Vest and it is because of the loss of his friend. He makes his son Ryan wear one too
hahler2, beautifully written story so very tragic that it is.
MrSled, you summed up my fellings about my family perfectly and it brought tears to my eyes also.
MrSled thank you for the safety forum. If you can do that one in red letters that would be great.
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
NOS-PRO said:
Terry was it you who missed a corner on the 06 demo ride?
If so I was impressed by the split second decision to abort and go smack dab in the middle of an open area.
I saw it as a skilled rider practicing an aspect of safety most riders dont even think about.
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Yes, Tork, It was me. The trail was extremely icy that day, and on that RS Rage, the track just kept pushing me into the corner. The same thing happened this last weekend in Manitoba, where the corner, (Remember, it was both left hand corners, so I was on my own side), just came up too fast, and I had to take it out in the open spot. The pic in the photo section under Manitoba pics, is the one where I am by myself in the fluff, and stuck on my side. Thanks for the comment, Buddy!!!!!!!!
