Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
Here's a few more pics of parts bolted onto the sled.
Soldier'spapa
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2006
- Messages
- 729
- Location
- Naperville, IL
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2018 Sidewinder Ltx LE 50th Anniversary
Looking good Joe! I hope you get the opportunity to ride that beast soon!
As you know I was able to get some early season riding in this past weekend so I can now comment on the M-20 ride from my perspective.
We traveled to the western part of the UP and stayed in Bergland. We encountered trail conditions from "table-top smooth" to non-groomed totally whooped out. Initially I found the static pressure was too low. The skid was bottoming quite easily as we rode the access trail from our cabin to town. I LOVED how just a 10 second activation of a switch on the fly solved that problem and I didn't have to ask the rest of my group to wait for me while I stop to tweak my rear suspension. I found that I often went to the switch throughout the weekend to vary the pressure to suit the conditions. (I guess I thought it would be almost set-it-and-forget-it unless I had a pressure loss). In order to enjoy all the skid has to offer (just like the Fox Float Mega in my old mono suspension) it requires regular pressure adjustments. I don't mind this at all (actually I really like it)! It is possible to completely dial out the stutter bumps and glide right through them. I feel Fast did a good job with shock valving as I always felt stable and in control. Never once did I get "bucked" forward towards the bars from incorrect rebound.
With the taller ride height it's easier to lift the inner ski when cornering. I will experiment with this further next time out. I have a 13 mm sway bar I can install but would prefer not to because on my previous sled (07 Attak GT) when the heavy bar was installed there was too much feedback through the bars for my taste. Flatter cornering was not worth the trade-off IMHO. I'm wondering if drawing in the limiter strap will promote flatter cornering?? Anyone know?
Weight transfer is better than I expected! Having ridden an M-10 in the past and experiencing very poor transfer I was expecting far more track spin than I have. Nice!!
If there is any top speed loss it's of no matter to me. I saw triple digits on the display Sunday at the same level I recall from last season. I held it wide open just long enough to try to gauge top speed loss (if any). I'm not a wide open throttle rider and did it (mostly
) so I could report back here.
I logged about 280 miles over the course of the weekend and am very pleased I made the switch from the mono skid. I feel confident that with a little more time to familiarize myself further with this skid, it will prove out to be a very worthwhile addition.
BTW, the Root Cellar does a nice prime rib on Saturday night!
As you know I was able to get some early season riding in this past weekend so I can now comment on the M-20 ride from my perspective.
We traveled to the western part of the UP and stayed in Bergland. We encountered trail conditions from "table-top smooth" to non-groomed totally whooped out. Initially I found the static pressure was too low. The skid was bottoming quite easily as we rode the access trail from our cabin to town. I LOVED how just a 10 second activation of a switch on the fly solved that problem and I didn't have to ask the rest of my group to wait for me while I stop to tweak my rear suspension. I found that I often went to the switch throughout the weekend to vary the pressure to suit the conditions. (I guess I thought it would be almost set-it-and-forget-it unless I had a pressure loss). In order to enjoy all the skid has to offer (just like the Fox Float Mega in my old mono suspension) it requires regular pressure adjustments. I don't mind this at all (actually I really like it)! It is possible to completely dial out the stutter bumps and glide right through them. I feel Fast did a good job with shock valving as I always felt stable and in control. Never once did I get "bucked" forward towards the bars from incorrect rebound.
With the taller ride height it's easier to lift the inner ski when cornering. I will experiment with this further next time out. I have a 13 mm sway bar I can install but would prefer not to because on my previous sled (07 Attak GT) when the heavy bar was installed there was too much feedback through the bars for my taste. Flatter cornering was not worth the trade-off IMHO. I'm wondering if drawing in the limiter strap will promote flatter cornering?? Anyone know?
Weight transfer is better than I expected! Having ridden an M-10 in the past and experiencing very poor transfer I was expecting far more track spin than I have. Nice!!
If there is any top speed loss it's of no matter to me. I saw triple digits on the display Sunday at the same level I recall from last season. I held it wide open just long enough to try to gauge top speed loss (if any). I'm not a wide open throttle rider and did it (mostly
) so I could report back here.I logged about 280 miles over the course of the weekend and am very pleased I made the switch from the mono skid. I feel confident that with a little more time to familiarize myself further with this skid, it will prove out to be a very worthwhile addition.
BTW, the Root Cellar does a nice prime rib on Saturday night!
Last edited:
Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
I'm glad to hear you had a positive experience on your first trip out with the new skid! I'll admit that I was a little skeptical on my first trip, but that quickly went away with some miles. When you start drilling holes through a brand new sled, you have to stop and ask yourself if you're really doing the right thing...LOL!
Once the skid gets broken-in, (pivot points, air bag, etc) the frequent adjustments of air pressure may not be needed as often. It seemed like my skid really started to relax at the 500 mile range and became even more comfortable.
Oh yes, grease it every trip with a #1 grease. I use Yamalube grease for sled's.
Last edited:
Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
I'm only getting an hour here and there on my sled, but things are slowly starting to come together. I'm down to just double checking everything and adding a zip tie here and there.
I dropped the ball on where I placed the +/- switch. The switch terminals were hitting a hose that connects the two coolant reservoirs, so I added a longer hose to re-route the line around the switch. I got lucky this solved the problem. If the switch had been 1" farther forward, it would not have been an issue at all.
I dropped the ball on where I placed the +/- switch.
The switch terminals were hitting a hose that connects the two coolant reservoirs, so I added a longer hose to re-route the line around the switch. I got lucky this solved the problem. If the switch had been 1" farther forward, it would not have been an issue at all.
Last edited:
Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
Work has kept me pretty busy lately, so progress is still at a snails pace.
I completed an HID light project that I started last winter. Basically, all my HID components are tucked up inside the headlight pod. I wanted to show some pictures of just how close the lights and air system components fit under the panels. Here is a link to the build thread for the HID's:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/hi...dated-with-rocks-hid-kit.124815/#post-1185506
I completed an HID light project that I started last winter. Basically, all my HID components are tucked up inside the headlight pod. I wanted to show some pictures of just how close the lights and air system components fit under the panels. Here is a link to the build thread for the HID's:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/hi...dated-with-rocks-hid-kit.124815/#post-1185506
Last edited:
Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
I finally found time to powdercoat my front arms yesterday. It took about 6 hrs to remove the arms, degrease, sandblast, powdercoat and re-assemble. Thought I would also mention that all my A arm and bulkhead bushings have a lot of life left in them. I credit this to using a Bulkhead saver and grease zerks for quick and easy service!
The sled is mega filthy, so a bath and oil change is all that's left to do before the snow flies. I'll post up more pics when I get some trail time.
Cheers!
The sled is mega filthy, so a bath and oil change is all that's left to do before the snow flies. I'll post up more pics when I get some trail time.
Cheers!
Last edited:
Agman 57
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 926
- Age
- 67
- Location
- Fostoria, Ohio
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2018 Apex XTX LE, 50th Ann.
2018 Sidewinder LTX LE, 50th Ann.
2017 Sidewinder BTX LE
1992 V-Max 4 (Modded)
2002 ZR 120 G-daughter's
Looks Good Joe, wish all I had to do is give the sleds a bath and a service! Hoping to get started on my Nytro's Mountaintech +2 A-arms upgrade next week, if I can get a few hours of spare time worked in between Christmas and finishing up year-end business. (and of course the Post Harvest Dinner) 
Then I also have the bulkhead savers to put on all 3 of the Apexs.
Now that we are back home from the trip, I can get serious about getting the sleds ready.
Then I also have the bulkhead savers to put on all 3 of the Apexs.
Now that we are back home from the trip, I can get serious about getting the sleds ready.
Last edited:
Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
I finally got to go up and play over the weekend in Munising! The trails were awesome the entire time and Saturday was absolutely beautiful...one of the best trips ever!
So far so good with the front shock air system update. I am now able to alter the front and/or rear air pressure in a matter of seconds.
It took almost 2 years, but I'm officially calling this project complete...until I find something else to change!
Thanks to all of you that watched and for your comments! I had a blast with this project and enjoyed sharing every step with you!
-Redbeard
So far so good with the front shock air system update. I am now able to alter the front and/or rear air pressure in a matter of seconds.
It took almost 2 years, but I'm officially calling this project complete...until I find something else to change!
Thanks to all of you that watched and for your comments! I had a blast with this project and enjoyed sharing every step with you!
-Redbeard
Last edited:
Soldier'spapa
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2006
- Messages
- 729
- Location
- Naperville, IL
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2018 Sidewinder Ltx LE 50th Anniversary
Glad to hear you got out!!
I too was in the U.P. Sat-Sun. Had an impromptu 4 day trip cut short due to a buddy's sons health issue back home or I would still be there. We rode from Mercer Wis. to Houghton Saturday, stayed the night and then back to Mercer by 10:30 the next morning. Sundays 147 miles were put on in 5.5 hrs. Trails were spectacular! I bet we only rode 5 miles that had not yet been groomed after Saturdays traffic. The two day mileage tally was 322 and I have to say that I am 110% thrilled I pulled the trigger on the M-20. At the end of the day Saturday the trails were pretty choppy and I intentionally asked to try out a couple other brand new sleds in our group to compare the ride quality. I hopped aboard a Doo GSX 800 SE and a Cat ElTigre 9000. The Doo was good and the cat was crap... but the Apex M-20... OUTSTANDING! The addition of the rear skid, touring windscreen and WRP Seat has delivered the touring sled I had hoped for!
I have new Elka shocks on the front that I will be sending in for different valving or springs. I could not dial down the compression enough to deliver a plush ride through the stutters. My buddies found it interesting how they could watch my headlight bouncing with the bumps while the tail light remained stable. My current quest is to get the front end as compliant as the rear.
Big shout out of THANKS to Joe (aka Northernsledder) for the time and effort not only put forth to mod your sled but also sharing your work with the rest of us! You have been more than helpful!!!
You were right! The skid became far more compliant after it broke in. I'm guessing its the air bag that moves easier after some use.
I too was in the U.P. Sat-Sun. Had an impromptu 4 day trip cut short due to a buddy's sons health issue back home or I would still be there. We rode from Mercer Wis. to Houghton Saturday, stayed the night and then back to Mercer by 10:30 the next morning. Sundays 147 miles were put on in 5.5 hrs. Trails were spectacular! I bet we only rode 5 miles that had not yet been groomed after Saturdays traffic. The two day mileage tally was 322 and I have to say that I am 110% thrilled I pulled the trigger on the M-20. At the end of the day Saturday the trails were pretty choppy and I intentionally asked to try out a couple other brand new sleds in our group to compare the ride quality. I hopped aboard a Doo GSX 800 SE and a Cat ElTigre 9000. The Doo was good and the cat was crap... but the Apex M-20... OUTSTANDING! The addition of the rear skid, touring windscreen and WRP Seat has delivered the touring sled I had hoped for!
I have new Elka shocks on the front that I will be sending in for different valving or springs. I could not dial down the compression enough to deliver a plush ride through the stutters. My buddies found it interesting how they could watch my headlight bouncing with the bumps while the tail light remained stable. My current quest is to get the front end as compliant as the rear.
Big shout out of THANKS to Joe (aka Northernsledder) for the time and effort not only put forth to mod your sled but also sharing your work with the rest of us! You have been more than helpful!!!
You were right! The skid became far more compliant after it broke in. I'm guessing its the air bag that moves easier after some use.
Last edited:
sxray
Pro
Just going to throw this out there if anyone else is wanting to upgrade to this. My son has an M20 with the compressor in my shed I would love to move. PM if interested.
17Rambler
Pro
Hmmm been thinking about M10 or M20 but the install seems complicated!
Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
I own an M10 and an M20. If you're a trail rider, I will tell you with absolute certainty that the M20 is the way to go! On a side note, my buddy has a 2013 Vector LTX. For being stock, it doesn't have to take a back seat to anyone on ride quality!
Don't let the installation scare you away...most of what I did to my sled was not necessary. Post #40 on page 3 is really all you need and Brian at Fast is great at answering questions! I would answer what I could for you too!
17Rambler
Pro
Bad back - I need a super plush ride. I can't get the stock to give me that, plus the ease of adjusting M10/M20 sounds really appealing.
Side note - what county are you in? I went to ND.
Side note - what county are you in? I went to ND.
Redbeard
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,659
- Location
- IN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
I understand! You won't be unhappy with the M20 as far as ride quality goes, but you will lose some weight transfer / traction...not too bad though.
I'm 4 hrs south of N.D.
Soldier'spapa
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2006
- Messages
- 729
- Location
- Naperville, IL
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2018 Sidewinder Ltx LE 50th Anniversary
Fast's all in one tunnel mounted compressor gauge and switch is far easier to install than a remotely located system. I wanted to have the gauge and switch right in front of me so I spent more time installing/fabricating. It is possible to simply mount the air line through the tunnel and use a hand pump to adjust pressure trailside if you want. If you are handy with the tools I bet you could accomplish that install in a couple afternoons.
I have no regrets and would do it all over again. I love this skid!
