Team Primary on Winder secondary mocked up

[JLR]

Would also be interested in seeing the new dalton blk/orange @ 9/1

Also the new black orange i received says to wrap at 6/2

Thanks

 

[Doowithblue]

Also the new black orange i received says to wrap at 6/2

Thanks

Supposed to be equal to the original at 6/1.

 

[1nc 2000]

Anybody RIP a 8dn in half like this on their sidewinder?

 

[KnappAttack]

Mike would you say there *might be this benefit with the OEM clutch and setup....Ive tried some cat secondary springs (fewer coils spread apart) with more side force and thought it seemed all worked better?

I know the heavier side pressure Cat springs helped me when I used it with the 8DN belt in actual trail use a while ago. Much better backshift, higher top speed and the machine keeps pulling up top. Also cooler belt and clutches.

Mike if the dalton white at 9/1 is approx 11kg-24lb twist what would it be at 6/2? 20lbs?

As I've said earlier. I'm not bothering checking twist or break anymore. I test the pressure in the secondary all assembled much like you would with a compression spring, after all, that is what the belt is actually seeing in real world use and all that really matters to the belt. To me, the break is irrelevant or a moot point when checking things this way. The only way I can get good numbers on twist is to use steel shims between the sheaves so the sheaves aren't grinding together, and I don't use shims anymore with the Team setup as you don't have to adjust for deflection on it.

I will say adding twist will add side pressure as it is working with the helix to apply that belt side pressure, so helix angle also has an effect on side pressure with just the spring, now add the engine TQ and belt shift forces to the equation and belt side pressure also goes up.

Would also be interested in seeing the new dalton blk/orange @ 9/1

I don't have a new Dalton to check, but its not going to get close to the heavier Cat springs for side pressure.

Also the new black orange i received says to wrap at 6/2 Thanks

I don't have a NEW Dalton Black/Orange and just checked the old one at 6-2 it added 10-15 lbs is all over 6-1. I'm right at coil bind with it on my secondary machined .110" for the wider Cat 1.5" belt at 6-2 also. In my opinion its just not enough side pressure for snow or trail use up top to keep a hold on the belt. I believe we need a BUNCH more side pressure when geared up a bit and with big tunes.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Ok Mike...I do understand what you are doing. I was hoping for a break lbs so I can compare, but I get it.

So the Dalton Blk/Lime and Dalton White are both heavier then the b/o... And they are both same torsion as Cat green, Which is a tad higher torsional then the b/o i believe.

So If I were to test with one of these, which would you recommend? Or should I grab them both to test with...or are they close enough.

I believe I want to stay away from purple as its thicker wire, Id rather not worry bout coil bind.

Dan

Dalton CAT torsional springs

 

[KnappAttack]

Ok Mike...I do understand what you are doing. I was hoping for a break lbs so I can compare, but I get it.

So the Dalton Blk/Lime and Dalton White are both heavier then the b/o... And they are both same torsion as Cat green, Which is a tad higher torsional then the b/o i believe.

So If I were to test with one of these, which would you recommend? Or should I grab them both to test with...or are they close enough.

I believe I want to stay away from purple as its thicker wire, Id rather not worry bout coil bind.

Dan

Dalton CAT torsional springs
View attachment 145201

The White and Black/Lime are 10#lbs apart from the way I'm testing them with equal 9-1 settings, which I don't believe is enough wrap yet 0-1 to me would be a min wrap. The White with 10* more wrap than the Black/Lime will end up the same side pressure. Really does not matter. I'd grab the White and start there. More Helix will need more spring IMO. ClutchMaster has been talking about this for some time. Everything I'm seeing is we need WAY more side pressure than we have been running. The Cat guys have known this for a while. Harder belts like the 8DN need even more yet. Some of these guys are wrapping them way-way up there to prevent slippage. Don't be afraid, but be ready to run more weight, and thats going to mean less roller life on the Yamaha too I bet. I know I could not MPH last season with the big tunes in the snow. Different story this year. I still wouldn't try and run too much helix, it will still slip, like with say a 41-37 and 8DN belt. Signs point to needing to add even more side pressure. We still don't have snow to test, so I'm still not confident in a solid setup, just know we need way more side pressure compared to what we've been running.

 

[snowdust]

I'm going to try a straight 38 with the dalton white in two weekends. I'll report back how it performs. Running dalton weights in primary with blk/blue. I'll also have the EPI purple with stock 35 to compare to. Running hurricane jukebox.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

The White and Black/Lime are 10#lbs apart from the way I'm testing them with equal 9-1 settings, which I don't believe is enough wrap yet 0-1 to me would be a min wrap. The White with 10* more wrap than the Black/Lime will end up the same side pressure. Really does not matter. I'd grab the White and start there. More Helix will need more spring IMO. ClutchMaster has been talking about this for some time. Everything I'm seeing is we need WAY more side pressure than we have been running. The Cat guys have known this for a while. Harder belts like the 8DN need even more yet. Some of these guys are wrapping them way-way up there to prevent slippage. Don't be afraid, but be ready to run more weight, and thats going to mean less roller life on the Yamaha too I bet. I know I could not MPH last season with the big tunes in the snow. Different story this year. I still wouldn't try and run too much helix, it will still slip, like with say a 41-37 and 8DN belt. Signs point to needing to add even more side pressure. We still don't have snow to test, so I'm still not confident in a solid setup, just know we need way more side pressure compared to what we've been running.

Thanks Mike, Im still running the newest Ultimax, which seems far harder then stock 8jp last yr, clean belt so far. I am also testing the 37/35 which I actually like, when compared to the 39/35 which I liked too, but this seems to like it.

I will grab both White and bk/lime for testing.

Another question....I found after alot of decent running(not hi speed but just fast trails and medium lakes) Movable cool, but inner sheave HOT to touch....Secondary entirely cool/cold. Im wondering if my offset being lowered has brought this on? I don't recall having such a discrepancy between movable and fixed ever. They used to both be similar in heat. I may move outward 1 mm and maybe bring back 1mm of float, to test this issue.

Dan

 

[1049triple]

Dan, I was having the same problem as you. But the hotter inside primary sheave was transfering heat to secondary inner sheave. After removing the clutch guard and mesuring alignment, I added 1mm shim behind the secondary from the Hurricane tool set-up. This will bring alignment better from 0 to about 7/8 shift, wich I think is the most time the belt spend its time, while being still acceptable at full shift. Will be able to try this in 8 days.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Dan, I was having the same problem as you. But the hotter inside primary sheave was transfering heat to secondary inner sheave. After removing the clutch guard and mesuring alignment, I added 1mm shim behind the secondary from the Hurricane tool set-up. This will bring alignment better from 0 to about 7/8 shift, wich I think is the most time the belt spend its time, while being still acceptable at full shift. Will be able to try this in 8 days.

I do tend to run hard in tight trails, corner to corner, and so the 1 to 1 alignment with Daves bar has always had me wondering if for me it is best? So I may test outward 1mm just to see.

I do believe the inner sheave is often hotter to a certain degree, but will test this.

 

[STAIN]

I do tend to run hard in tight trails, corner to corner, and so the 1 to 1 alignment with Daves bar has always had me wondering if for me it is best? So I may test outward 1mm just to see.

This is why I let my secondary float back out @2mm
I also set my belt deflection with shims between the sheaves like the old Cat secondary.

 

[Doowithblue]

Don't be afraid, but be ready to run more weight, and thats going to mean less roller life on the Yamaha too I bet.

this is pretty much the only downfall of giant springs out back. Ive always ran a big rear spring in my doos because i love backshift. So now someone needs to come out with a bulletproof set of rollers with bushing material made from unobtanium.

 

[YukonMP]

I do believe the inner sheave is often hotter to a certain degree, but will test this.[/QUOTE]

Don't anyone tell Steve, it will give him one more thing to obsess over.

 

[johan]

Don't be afraid, but be ready to run more weight, and thats going to mean less roller life on the Yamaha too I bet.

this is pretty much the only downfall of giant springs out back. Ive always ran a big rear spring in my doos because i love backshift. So now someone needs to come out with a bulletproof set of rollers with bushing material made from unobtanium.

I have had bad luck to have the driven float on machine when goin over 250hp. As soon i have float the belt will not survive long for me. I think that the driven binds on shaft.

 

[STAIN]

Don't be afraid, but be ready to run more weight, and thats going to mean less roller life on the Yamaha too I bet.

this is pretty much the only downfall of giant springs out back. Ive always ran a big rear spring in my doos because i love backshift. So now someone needs to come out with a bulletproof set of rollers with bushing material made from unobtanium.

I am testing some bronze bushings in the primary rollers right now I will see how they last