The Clutch Rabbit Hole

[Derailed]

Question - Does anyone have experience with the Dalton 70g adjustable weights on a stock machine or the TD Ecotrail tune? (129” track, heavy rider)

I see that 66g weights are recommended for that power level but I’d like to upgrade later to powertrail or max 16 maybe and would rather not have to purchase more weights.

2nd question: Could this be balanced out with a different primary spring? Any suggestions there would be appreciated.

A little more background for those interested:
It’s the first time I’ve touched the clutches (other than changing belts) on my 2017 Sidewinder with 9’200km on it. Of course I had the flat spot secondary rollers and 1 primary roller that wouldn’t roll which wore the weight down. The first few seasons I never blew any belts but the last couple I started snapping new belts (always running 8JP) when off and back on throttle. I checked my offset and it was 59 but I’m feeling the flat spot secondary had a lot to do with this (pic attached).

My plan is to get the Turbo dynamics aggressive trail clutch kit with the 70g Dalton weights and the multi-map tuner this season and run everything else stock or eco trail, next season I may look at a pipe etc and go closed loop but for now I’d like to see if I can get away with that setup. Beats buying a new sled at this point


I’m up for any advice on the topic, maybe re-think this all together and run an Apex clutch?

Thanks,

 

[Doc Harley]

Well.....the ecotrail or possibly the power trail wouldn't require any clutching. Just switch to an Ultimax XS825 belt.
And that should balance things out.
Assuming you're using Yamaha clutches

 

[Derailed]

Well.....the ecotrail or possibly the power trail wouldn't require any clutching. Just switch to an Ultimax XS825 belt.
And that should balance things out.
Assuming you're using Yamaha clutches

Ok I didn’t know about that option. I have wear on my weights so I figured it was time to change them regardless so going adjustable made sense to me. Also I’ve heard clutch springs get worn out after a while too, at almost 10’000km would it be time for a change anyhow?

Thanks

 

[Doc Harley]

Ok I didn’t know about that option. I have wear on my weights so I figured it was time to change them regardless so going adjustable made sense to me. Also I’ve heard clutch springs get worn out after a while too, at almost 10’000km would it be time for a change anyhow?

Thanks

I'm sorry....eco trail and 8jp belt would probably get you closer. As the SX belt will drag down RPM On top. A very good compromise belt would be the Gates Redline G force belt. They're very inexpensive and might not pull down the RPM as much as the SX. Maybe others will chime in.
The Yamaha springs are typically fine.its like the secondary rollers can be switched to Stock Arctic Cat rollers better durability, and primary rollers, I'd just stick with stock Yamaha. Maybe someone will suggest other product. But I put 4,000 miles on mine. Definitely cheaper options.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

Hi-Torque secondary rollers for the win.

 

[74Nitro]

Check the helix for grooving.
I've been changing the rollers in the primary out for G-Force when the stock ones are done, and also the weights.
If the helix is grooved you could consider a 41-37.
I agree to change out the secondary rollers for hi-torque

 

[fatchance]

You can always benefit from more efficient clutching at any power level, but don't expect those components to be useful at the different power levels. Adding 50 plus HP to any machine will require a wholesale change of clutching parts. It's the nature of the beast.. This isn't a poor man's game. As the saying goes, You wanna play you gotta pay.

 

[Derailed]

You can always benefit from more efficient clutching at any power level, but don't expect those components to be useful at the different power levels. Adding 50 plus HP to any machine will require a wholesale change of clutching parts. It's the nature of the beast.. This isn't a poor man's game. As the saying goes, You wanna play you gotta pay.

I do hear what you’re saying, but if I can avoid spending yet another $300 to replace weights then I’m going to take that option. The way the Dalton weights or other adjustable are advertised seems to suggest they could be used for around a 50hp variation

Mostly looking to see if anyone has experience running 70g Dalton weights on a stock setup and if they say definitely don’t do this it’ll lug it down too much.

Thanks

 

[Doc Harley]

I do hear what you’re saying, but if I can avoid spending yet another $300 to replace weights then I’m going to take that option. The way the Dalton weights or other adjustable are advertised seems to suggest they could be used for around a 50hp variation

Mostly looking to see if anyone has experience running 70g Dalton weights on a stock setup and if they say definitely don’t do this it’ll lug it down too much.

Thanks

Stock weights are 72g Dalton's 70g empty. Due to the ramp design the Dalton's act heavier than they are. I know, I just went thru this.
Others will chime in, but you do not need to spent the $300.
It's a matter of which belt will drive the additional Rpm's down to make your engine happy.
I have talked to 20 different people in regards to how much an aftermarket belt could affect your RPMs. Especially in regards to the Redline G force belt. And I got three different answers. And they went from no RPM change, 100 RPM change and 200 RPM change versus the XS825.
I wish I could help you further, as I have two brand new Redline belts in my hand, just haven't tested it yet.
When you decide to bump up power you will eventually need to get the daltons.
The reason I'm pushing the red line belt is the price. It's half of what the XS825 is.
Last note, you really need to spend more time in maintenance. I don't think I've ever seen a roller that worn out. Makes me wonder what the primary parts looks like? Just saying...

 

[Derailed]

Stock weights are 72g Dalton's 70g empty. Due to the ramp design the Dalton's act heavier than they are. I know, I just went thru this.
Others will chime in, but you do not need to spent the $300.
It's a matter of which belt will drive the additional Rpm's down to make your engine happy.
I have talked to 20 different people in regards to how much an aftermarket belt could affect your RPMs. Especially in regards to the Redline G force belt. And I got three different answers. And they went from no RPM change, 100 RPM change and 200 RPM change versus the XS825.
I wish I could help you further, as I have two brand new Redline belts in my hand, just haven't tested it yet.
When you decide to bump up power you will eventually need to get the daltons.
The reason I'm pushing the red line belt is the price. It's half of what the XS825 is.
Last note, you really need to spend more time in maintenance. I don't think I've ever seen a roller that worn out. Makes me wonder what the primary parts looks like? Just saying...

They look like this:

The yellow highlighted area is where the weight was wore down about .005” from the one roller that wasn’t rolling easy. The rollers aren’t that out of round.

Yeah the clutches were neglected but I never had too many issues until last season or so.

 

[STAIN]

I've been changing the rollers in the primary out for G-Force

Are you using their rollers with the brass bushings?

 

[Doc Harley]

They look like this:
View attachment 174690View attachment 174690
The yellow highlighted area is where the weight was wore down about .005” from the one roller that wasn’t rolling easy. The rollers aren’t that out of round.

Yeah the clutches were neglected but I never had too many issues until last season or so.

I see...pull the pin that's inside roller, look down the roller. See if it's ovaled out.

I kinda know what others are thinking...lol
Dalton qay70's, G Force primary rollers, Hi-torque or Arctic Cat secondary rollers , Red line g Force belt.I polish my pins, I lube all removable/movable parts with wd40, Scotch Brite the clutch faces then wipe clean with acetone or like.
Might want to check the little towers those pins go through for damage.
Bud....this is not exactly what you want to hear. But it's probably for the best.
Your words: You want stock, or maybe I'll do Eco trail. Then later on do Max 16, maybe I'm not sure.
It's tough! As they say...do it right the first time and you'll save money over time.

 

[WinderFab]

I do hear what you’re saying, but if I can avoid spending yet another $300 to replace weights then I’m going to take that option. The way the Dalton weights or other adjustable are advertised seems to suggest they could be used for around a 50hp variation

Mostly looking to see if anyone has experience running 70g Dalton weights on a stock setup and if they say definitely don’t do this it’ll lug it down too much.

Thanks

I run Dalton 70g empty with xs belt on my 20 with hurricane 240ss tune and they are right at the limit to get the rpm at 8850-8900, not sure about the 17’s but I would think they wouldn’t work good on a stock machine.

 

[Derailed]

I run Dalton 70g empty with xs belt on my 20 with hurricane 240ss tune and they are right at the limit to get the rpm at 8850-8900, not sure about the 17’s but I would think they wouldn’t work good on a stock machine.

Ok, Thank you! What primary spring are you running?

 

[WinderFab]

Ok, Thank you! What primary spring are you running?

Dalton black/red