Thunder Products Orange Secondary spring **Update**

[Threeman03]

So if your sleds stock and having no belt issues it’s still recommended to switch to 2-3? And by doing this will it increase or decrease top end rpms just a little ?

 

[shagman]

So if your sleds stock and having no belt issues it’s still recommended to switch to 2-3? And by doing this will it increase or decrease top end rpms just a little ?

If your stock and ok leave it. If you develop a problem please contact us. Thanks.


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[Threeman03]

If your stock and ok leave it. If you develop a problem please contact us. Thanks.


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If it is switched to 2-3 how will it affect top end rpms ?

 

[WinterWolf]

Interesting....thanks for this. I wonder if Yam had tested these enough to know the stock secondary setup worked best overall for belt life? I have heard a few times that stock secondary was fastest now.

Doesn't Ben run stock secondary setup with just dalton weights/spring on all his hi speed vids? Maybe we are all throwing too much at these?

Dan

What happened to the idea that the stock Secondary spring would bind and cause issues? And the stock Helix is junk compared to Dalton’s works of art.

I raced my buddy’s new 18 LTX with all stock clutching, with my new 18 RTX With stock primary, but With Dalton Black/Orange Secondary, and Dalton 33/35 Helix, and he wasn’t faster. In fact I could pull him out of the hole; and I would jump out ahead if we pegged it rolling at 40-50 mph. So in my experience, the stock Secondary isn’t any faster than what I’m running in mine.

 

[snowbeast]

If it is switched to 2-3 how will it affect top end rpms ?

It will lower overall shift out,if you were 8800 you may now be 8700 or lower,but have less belt squeeze,and maybe less belt heat.

 

[newtron]

What happened to the idea that the stock Secondary spring would bind and cause issues? And the stock Helix is junk compared to Dalton’s works of art.

I raced my buddy’s new 18 LTX with all stock clutching, with my new 18 RTX With stock primary, but With Dalton Black/Orange Secondary, and Dalton 33/35 Helix, and he wasn’t faster. In fact I could pull him out of the hole; and I would jump out ahead if we pegged it rolling at 40-50 mph. So in my experience, the stock Secondary isn’t any faster than what I’m running in mine.

Did you race him when you were all stock?

 

[MDGFLHR]

I have a TD powertrail flash and Ulmers stage 1. Last year with stock sled and just Ulmers and his rollers I had no belt issues nor and binding. I've tried the TP orange and 33/35 helix and like Dan said it just doesn't work with STM weights or tune. Now the powertrail doesn't have full boost down low like some of the other tunes. So just to try and hopefully get a little more down low I'm gonna try the stock spring in the 33/35 helix. If this doesn't work for me I'm gonna go with what Ben has said all along the stock secondary is hard to beat. My next and probably final option other than stock will be the stage 2 part of Ulmers clutching. I've never had a issue with any of Allen's clutch kits in any of my Apexs. It may not be the absolute fastest setup but in my experience can't be beat with all around performance.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

What happened to the idea that the stock Secondary spring would bind and cause issues? And the stock Helix is junk compared to Dalton’s works of art.

I raced my buddy’s new 18 LTX with all stock clutching, with my new 18 RTX With stock primary, but With Dalton Black/Orange Secondary, and Dalton 33/35 Helix, and he wasn’t faster. In fact I could pull him out of the hole; and I would jump out ahead if we pegged it rolling at 40-50 mph. So in my experience, the stock Secondary isn’t any faster than what I’m running in mine.

Yeah but what about top end? Orange and rev helix will certainly be faster in bottom and mid, I was talking top end with stock setup.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I have a TD powertrail flash and Ulmers stage 1. Last year with stock sled and just Ulmers and his rollers I had no belt issues nor and binding. I've tried the TP orange and 33/35 helix and like Dan said it just doesn't work with STM weights or tune. Now the powertrail doesn't have full boost down low like some of the other tunes. So just to try and hopefully get a little more down low I'm gonna try the stock spring in the 33/35 helix. If this doesn't work for me I'm gonna go with what Ben has said all along the stock secondary is hard to beat. My next and probably final option other than stock will be the stage 2 part of Ulmers clutching. I've never had a issue with any of Allen's clutch kits in any of my Apexs. It may not be the absolute fastest setup but in my experience can't be beat with all around performance.

I got some dalton weights coming to test with too, just wanna see how they are diff in backshift....What i dont like with the flatter profile STMs is they are like stock curvature, and need alot more weight then a curved(moreso) dalton or HH. And therefore with the added weight, backshift becomes sluggish. Which for tight trails sucks.

I think this is also the reason the Engine Braking is lacking....

Dan

 

[WinterWolf]

Did you race him when you were all stock?

No.
But he’s all stock. So if it was faster he should have walked me at the top, and he couldn’t.

 

[1100saber]

IMO once tuned stock helix angle is not enough. I haven’t jumped on the reverse angle train. Just now getting back to playing with stock secondary as my main sled has stm. Setting up a 50th for trail now. Was going to put more helix in it with the dalton spring, but leaving shorty for Cochrane and don’t feel like wrenching on a trip. Once I’m back after trip I will have 3 sidewinder stock secondary’s in the garage. Each one will get a different helix but same dalton spring and will compare back to back, same sled, same primary setup. This all using the TD gps to verify speed and acceleration. That should tell me what works for me. I have a variety of helix to try. This testing will likely be done on TD powertrail CAI, the new TD max spool 16, and TD Max Spool 17.

 

[WinterWolf]

Yeah but what about top end? Orange and rev helix will certainly be faster in bottom and mid, I was talking top end with stock setup.

No, we took them up to full throttle and held them for as long as was safe on a rail bed..so we pit em against each other on the top too, and he wasn’t any faster. In fact if anything I was starting to inch ahead. So my point was he wasn’t any faster on top end. But like you said I had more punch off the line and mid range.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

IMO once tuned stock helix angle is not enough. I haven’t jumped on the reverse angle train. Just now getting back to playing with stock secondary as my main sled has stm. Setting up a 50th for trail now. Was going to put more helix in it with the dalton spring, but leaving shorty for Cochrane and don’t feel like wrenching on a trip. Once I’m back after trip I will have 3 sidewinder stock secondary’s in the garage. Each one will get a different helix but same dalton spring and will compare back to back, same sled, same primary setup. This all using the TD gps to verify speed and acceleration. That should tell me what works for me. I have a variety of helix to try. This testing will likely be done on TD powertrail CAI, the new TD max spool 16, and TD Max Spool 17.

Nice....will be watching brother...

So you are thinking steeper then stock correct?

I got a 39/35 im gonna try next, but sorta wished I went with 41/37 or so.....But I think this area is increasingly catching my eye....Dale says be sure to run the bk/org at 6/1. As it wraps like the silver did.

The early boost tunes from Hurricane are animals down low and sure seem to warrant more helix. I assume same now that Ben has similar spooling.

Dan

 

[saskattakman]

is the consensus to go down to 2 and 3 for settings?

 

[newtron]

No.
But he’s all stock. So if it was faster he should have walked me at the top, and he couldn’t.

Not knocking your findings just sometimes one sled is faster than the other even when they are both completely stock.

You might have a fast one right out of the box!