Thunder Products Orange Secondary spring **Update**

[cannondale27]

I got some dalton weights coming to test with too, just wanna see how they are diff in backshift....What i dont like with the flatter profile STMs is they are like stock curvature, and need alot more weight then a curved(moreso) dalton or HH. And therefore with the added weight, backshift becomes sluggish. Which for tight trails sucks.

I think this is also the reason the Engine Braking is lacking....

Dan

You do know there is a system on these to reduce engine braking vs old Apex,RX1 or Phazer? It opens the IACV slightly on decel then closes it right before idle. I have found tune greatly affects engine braking more so than the clutching because of this. Run rich you will have more engine braking because it counter acts the system. Leaner is less engine braking. I hate engine braking. Thats what left fingers are for!

 

[lhdriller]

I'm running TD powertrail. Secondary is all stock atm. Stock primary spring. Dalton weights. Sled is very snappy all around. Current top speed is 120mph. I don't have another sidewinder around to compare anything too. Hard to gauge it with no other real competition! I hosed an apex from start to finish. My Buddy was WOT throttle on unpacked trail doing about 95mph and I passed him like he was tied on.

I have a Dalton black with orange stripe secondary spring coming a primary spring as well (black and green). Mike from TD said to go with 6 and 1 with the secondary spring. All their advice at Turbo Dynamics has been bang on so far. So much power and so many clutching options

 

[ROCKERDAN]

You do know there is a system on these to reduce engine braking vs old Apex,RX1 or Phazer? It opens the IACV slightly on decel then closes it right before idle. I have found tune greatly affects engine braking more so than the clutching because of this. Run rich you will have more engine braking because it counter acts the system. Leaner is less engine braking. I hate engine braking. Thats what left fingers are for!

Not at all....I can ride way faster not having to brake, but my area is very corner to corner tight stuff. I have used so much brake already on this sled its ridiculous..lol

I already brought up the EBRS a week ago, we all were asking tuners if they can work on this in ECU.

 

[WinterWolf]

Not knocking your findings just sometimes one sled is faster than the other even when they are both completely stock.

You might have a fast one right out of the box!

Oh no, I understand that and have witnessed exactly that over the years.

I didn’t want to take any chances with that stock Secondary spring and Helix and Rollers. So I changed those things right off the bat, to try and ward off belt issues, and coil binding etc etc. in its first 417 miles it’s been smooth as silk, and no issues. Sure Hope it continues going forward.

Maybe if I had kept the Secondary all stock, maybe it would have been fine too??? I just didn't want too because of the problems that some had from last year.

My friends LTX Was all stock in the clutching, and he had no issues either the first 500 or so miles. But he wasn’t any faster on top end than mine. And that made me happy. Maybe if I left it stock in the Secondary..mine would have been a tad faster at the top??? I’ll never know that. But I do know that I didn’t lose any top speed to a stock clutch set up LTX.

 

[WinterWolf]

Not knocking your findings just sometimes one sled is faster than the other even when they are both completely stock.

You might have a fast one right out of the box!

Oh no, I understand that and have witnessed exactly that over the years.

I didn’t want to take any chances with that stock Secondary spring and Helix and Rollers. So I changed those things right off the bat, to try and ward off belt issues, and coil binding etc etc. in its first 417 miles it’s been smooth as silk, and no issues. Sure Hope it continues going forward.

Maybe if I had kept the Secondary all stock, maybe it would have been fine too??? I just didn't want too because of the problems that some had from last year.

My friends LTX Was all stock in the clutching, and he had no issues either the first 500 or so miles. But he wasn’t any faster on top end than mine. And that made me happy. Maybe if I left it stock in the Secondary..mine would have been a tad faster at the top??? I’ll never know that. But I do know that I didn’t lose any top speed to a stock clutch set up LTX.

 

[cannondale27]

Not at all....I can ride way faster not having to brake, but my area is very corner to corner tight stuff. I have used so much brake already on this sled its ridiculous..lol

I already brought up the EBRS a week ago, we all were asking tuners if they can work on this in ECU.

If your not using brake its one of two possibilities. Either its not as tight as you think or your going alot slower than you think. Sorry

 

[STAIN]

I got a 39/35 im gonna try next, but sorta wished I went with 41/37 or so.....

I think this is the correct direction to go when you start to run bigger secondary springs.

 

[fourload]

Helixes are torque sensing. With the huge torque these things are putting out tuned I think a steeper helix would work much better. The 35 is probably fine for a stocker or mild stock muffler tune. I am sure the helix transmits more force to the belt than the spring at full wack. Olav Aaen's book is very informative on helixes.

 

[KnappAttack]

If your not using brake its one of two possibilities. Either its not as tight as you think or your going alot slower than you think. Sorry

He's not saying he's not using the brake, quite the opposite and using too much brake.

What Dan means is you could run the Apex's and 1200 Doo's faster thru the corners when we had extreme engine braking, the SideWinder needs more engine braking as not to have to use the brake all the time. And I agree. I can also drive faster and in better control with a whole bunch more engine braking.

IMO these thing need way, way more engine braking. I hate having to use the brake all the time!

 

[lakercr]

He's not saying he's not using the brake, quite the opposite and using too much brake.

What Dan means is you could run the Apex's and 1200 Doo's faster thru the corners when we had extreme engine braking, the SideWinder needs more engine braking as not to have to use the brake all the time. And I agree. I can also drive faster and in better control with a whole bunch more engine braking.

IMO these thing need way, way more engine braking. I hate having to use the brake all the time!

What are you running for weights in the primary? I did ~80 miles last night playing with some secondary springs and found the engine braking was actually pretty good with the HH setup in the front. Sled needs way more cam now with 270R

 

[SAB1]

What I know about clutches you could fit in a thimble. I have the Thunder Products secondary Helix 33/35 with the new rollers and the Thunder Products spring. Its set in the 3 & 3 holes. So now we are saying it should be in 2 & 3? Is this crucial as Im heading out to Maine for a trip next week and would need to find someone to adjust. Ive only managed 92 miles since the new secondary went on.

 

[KnappAttack]

What are you running for weights in the primary? I did ~80 miles last night playing with some secondary springs and found the engine braking was actually pretty good with the HH setup in the front. Sled needs way more cam now with 270R

Using Daltons up front.

You are correct that the 270R needs an aggressive normal - progressive helix.

 

[shagman]

What I know about clutches you could fit in a thimble. I have the Thunder Products secondary Helix 33/35 with the new rollers and the Thunder Products spring. Its set in the 3 & 3 holes. So now we are saying it should be in 2 & 3? Is this crucial as Im heading out to Maine for a trip next week and would need to find someone to adjust. Ive only managed 92 miles since the new secondary went on.

Are you running a tune? What weights are you running? What belt are you running?


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[snowbeast]

I'm running TD powertrail. Secondary is all stock atm. Stock primary spring. Dalton weights. Sled is very snappy all around. Current top speed is 120mph. I don't have another sidewinder around to compare anything too. Hard to gauge it with no other real competition! I hosed an apex from start to finish. My Buddy was WOT throttle on unpacked trail doing about 95mph and I passed him like he was tied on.

I have a Dalton black with orange stripe secondary spring coming a primary spring as well (black and green). Mike from TD said to go with 6 and 1 with the secondary spring. All their advice at Turbo Dynamics has been bang on so far. So much power and so many clutching options

The blk/green will be much higher engagement and higher full shift and get a tad worse gas milage,i have it also,i tried it fro grass dragging,it is a stiff spring,waiting on his orange/blk secondary,its on order.

 

[SAB1]

No tune, stock belt.