Where does it OFFICIALLY say Apex is being dropped?

[74Nitro]

Thank you I'll check it out. I went over to the Sidewinder section of Ty4stroke and those seem like they are absolute junk! Belts breaking, oil leaking, all kinds of problems.

I was skeptical when Yamaha started sharing and building with Cat, but I got over my stubborness and bought a Winder. Added 60hp with my phone in less than a minute and only cost me $600. Best sled I've ever rode, what a blast. I blow by 800's, Apex's and 850's like they are standing still. It is like comparing a 500 to an 800.
I'm not saying a 4 cylinder can't exist and be successful, but unfortunately Yamaha was too complacent with the Apex and did not keep improving it fast enough. It IS too heavy. Have you ever looked at the bolts that hold the front A-arms on? They are like draw bolts for pulling farm equipment. What were they thinking? There were many places Yamaha could have reduced weight on the chassis, especially the front suspension, but did not.

 

[UP Michigan rider]

I have had my Apex for 6 years now and absolutely 0 and i mean ZERO problems. Never been in the shop (oil change of course) Can someone please explain to me what the apex CAN NOT do? All I hear is weight weight weight!! Well I don't plan on jumping my Apex off a mountain with a helicopter filming me anytime soon. I have gone through some seriously deep snow in the U.P. Michigan logging trails and didn't have a problem. I love the "weight" going 100 MPH. I feel safe! Another 5 years from now I can slap a turbo on it and get 300 HP.! What is so bad about the Apex? Japanese motorcycle engineered and made in Japan.

 

[UP Michigan rider]

"IMO, a heavier sled is actually better for trail carving because you have more weight pushing down on the skis and the track, giving you more traction.
Ive ridden just about all of the Yamaha 4-strokes (everything except for the Attak, Rage and Venture) and they honestly dont feel any heavier than my 600 (480 pounds dry).
I think that people put just a little too much emphasis on a sled's dry weight. I personally find it very amusing that some people will bash 4-strokes because of the weight and say they wouldnt want one because they are too heavy, yet they will brag up the oldschool triple-triples all day long, despite the fact that those old triple-triples were just as heavy as any of today's 4-strokes.
If you are riding off-trail or riding on really bumpy trails or racing, the weight is a penalty but for the average person who just rides on groomed trails (and thats the vast majority of us), weight isnt that much of a factor."

 

[74Nitro]

I have had my Apex for 6 years now and absolutely 0 and i mean ZERO problems. Never been in the shop (oil change of course) Can someone please explain to me what the apex CAN NOT do? All I hear is weight weight weight!! Well I don't plan on jumping my Apex off a mountain with a helicopter filming me anytime soon. I have gone through some seriously deep snow in the U.P. Michigan logging trails and didn't have a problem. I love the "weight" going 100 MPH. I feel safe! Another 5 years from now I can slap a turbo on it and get 300 HP.! What is so bad about the Apex? Japanese motorcycle engineered and made in Japan.

The Apex is good sled, but for me I felt it wasn't rider forward enough. Hands down the most reliable engine in the business, no doubt. I've never seen an engine failure and I've wrenched on plenty of them.
However, my local dealer in Southwestern Ontario sold 3 Apex this year and 29 Winders.
The market isn't wrong.

 

[Sasquatch]

They did. Its called a Sidewinder.

But we all know that is a Thunder Cat wanna bee!

 

[mikextx]

"IMO, a heavier sled is actually better for trail carving because you have more weight pushing down on the skis and the track, giving you more traction.
Ive ridden just about all of the Yamaha 4-strokes (everything except for the Attak, Rage and Venture) and they honestly dont feel any heavier than my 600 (480 pounds dry).
I think that people put just a little too much emphasis on a sled's dry weight. I personally find it very amusing that some people will bash 4-strokes because of the weight and say they wouldnt want one because they are too heavy, yet they will brag up the oldschool triple-triples all day long, despite the fact that those old triple-triples were just as heavy as any of today's 4-strokes.
If you are riding off-trail or riding on really bumpy trails or racing, the weight is a penalty but for the average person who just rides on groomed trails (and thats the vast majority of us), weight isnt that much of a factor."

No way in hell was my tripple as heavy as my Apex.

 

[Sasquatch]

I'll let other people respond but from my experience, 2012 and beyond apex are darn near perfect. (yes I hate the drone but I don't live in Canada where there are speed limits)

2011 and beyond! With 2011 slider wear is bad because idler wheels are placed higher on the skid, plus side of that is less drone. Duponts are expensive but easily extend slider life by 6 to 8 times and I wear a bit more then the average rider. Last Apex shortens Stieners list to almost nothing. The Cat list is a long one as well but the true test will be time. The Apex earned that list because it lasted forever, been with us since 2003. Slowly (Yamaha does not move fast) its been refined amd improved! Cat chassis is a mere babe in comparison! The last version of the Apex and the last version of the Cat chassis are about the same age and since 2011 I have had only one of the problems that Stiener listed. The mechanical relay which has been a pain in every sled out there with it ( my buddy took his relays out at night and brought them into the hotel room on his Doo), thankfully has a replacement! It likes to stick! New electronic doesn't! If you compare the lists of problems on the two chassis in the same time line the Cats list is longer, I know somewhere down the road I will have to change out the titainium exhast header, titainium is a poor choice and is brittle why they went back to it is a bit mind boggling! That is going to cost a thousand bucks! 12,000 miles and yes I had to change a 15 dollar relay on a 7 year old sled! Put in 4 belts changing them around 3,000 miles of wear at 80 bucks each (Cat at 250 each and lots going through them like a kid eating candy). The new turbo sled might be a tad faster but its a long way from proving its as refined!

 

[74Nitro]

2011 and beyond! With 2011 slider wear is bad because idler wheels are placed higher on the skid, plus side of that is less drone. Duponts are expensive but easily extend slider life by 6 to 8 times and I wear a bit more then the average rider. Last Apex shortens Stieners list to almost nothing. The Cat list is a long one as well but the true test will be time. The Apex earned that list because it lasted forever, been with us since 2003. Slowly (Yamaha does not move fast) its been refined amd improved! Cat chassis is a mere babe in comparison! The last version of the Apex and the last version of the Cat chassis are about the same age and since 2011 I have had only one of the problems that Stiener listed. The mechanical relay which has been a pain in every sled out there with it ( my buddy took his relays out at night and brought them into the hotel room on his Doo), thankfully has a replacement! It likes to stick! New electronic doesn't! If you compare the lists of problems on the two chassis in the same time line the Cats list is longer, I know somewhere down the road I will have to change out the titainium exhast header, titainium is a poor choice and is brittle why they went back to it is a bit mind boggling! That is going to cost a thousand bucks! 12,000 miles and yes I had to change a 15 dollar relay on a 7 year old sled! Put in 4 belts changing them around 3,000 miles of wear at 80 bucks each (Cat at 250 each and lots going through them like a kid eating candy). The new turbo sled might be a tad faster but its a long way from proving its as refined!

Yamaha has been using the same chassis since 03, and the Cat chassis is all-new since 2012

 

[Sasquatch]

Yamaha has been using the same chassis since 03, and the Cat chassis is all-new since 2012

I guess you would have to elaborate on that statement and make a point. The statement I made was about past issues that no longer exist in the 2011 or 2012 up Apex! Or was the point you where making is that the Cat is still riding a 7 year old chassis that Yamaha is now trying to refine the problems out of to bring it up to to 2012 Apex standards? The reason I ask is if you think the 2003 RX chassis is the same as My 2011 XTX chassis and shares all the previous issues, you are wrong!

 

[Sasquatch]

The Apex is good sled, but for me I felt it wasn't rider forward enough. Hands down the most reliable engine in the business, no doubt. I've never seen an engine failure and I've wrenched on plenty of them.
However, my local dealer in Southwestern Ontario sold 3 Apex this year and 29 Winders.
The market isn't wrong.

Winder is new, apex is old and lasts forever, everyone wants new because new has to be better! Its how the disposable world came to be! Why buy an Apex if your old Apex still runs like new? If Yamaha wanted to sell more Apex's they would have built a new Apex or made them more disposable! Maybe they did!

 

[74Nitro]

Winder is new, apex is old and lasts forever, everyone wants new because new has to be better! Its how the disposable world came to be! Why buy an Apex if your old Apex still runs like new? If Yamaha wanted to sell more Apex's they would have built a new Apex or made them more disposable! Maybe they did!

The chassis is the same from 03 through 18 aside from a few variations of rear suspension changes. The bulkheads interchange in all those years. I've worked on these things for since they came out, I fix sleds for a living over the winter. This is the first year I drove a Winder, I was on a Nytro for many years, and this chassis is basicly superior, and lower maintenance in every way, aside from the chaincase which I think is a poor design.
The Apex's, while unique in some ways no doubt, failed to change and adapt quick enough. Yamaha became too complacent with it.
Last year my dealer sold almost 30 Winders to 3 Apex's. The market is never wrong.

 

[Sasquatch]

The chassis is the same from 03 through 18 aside from a few variations of rear suspension changes. The bulkheads interchange in all those years. I've worked on these things for since they came out, I fix sleds for a living over the winter. This is the first year I drove a Winder, I was on a Nytro for many years, and this chassis is basicly superior, and lower maintenance in every way, aside from the chaincase which I think is a poor design.
The Apex's, while unique in some ways no doubt, failed to change and adapt quick enough. Yamaha became too complacent with it.
Last year my dealer sold almost 30 Winders to 3 Apex's. The market is never wrong.

Again I'm missing the point! We all know they are delta box but again to say the 11 up has all the same problems as the 03 is simply wrong. The 03 compared to the 11 up is a totally different well refined sled! When comparing problems with the two sleds ie Cat and the Apex you must compare them from the same time line!

If your trying to tell me its still an RX/Apex then you are correct ( they was also front suspension changes and a delta box change) , I think we all know that and that Yamaha should have at some point redesigned rather then refined. With Cat they will continue to refine, refine, refine and yes I hate the chaincase, the blown belts, the low down annoying rattle etc of the Cat chassis design! Maybe they will refine that out over the next 8 years! They did it with the Yamaha!