Who is running or has gone back to Tuner ski?

[mooser17]

I am running a 17 Ltd le with 5.7 pilots with 7.5 shaper bars, suspension settings to compression 1 all around. Torsion blocks on 2 as I'm 255 with gear on, front shock spring 1/2" stiffer than stock , my fronts are set soft A arms are pretty much level. It turns very well but lots of effort heavy steering. Darts like a bastard. And bad inside ski lift. I've tried virtually all set ups sled is awful on the trail. Rode a 18 Ltx Dx with pilots wow!!! Totally different sled no dart or ski lift or heavy steering!! Same sled different shocks so frustrating.

 

[Crossfire12]

Did you try letting out one hole limiter strap?

 

[mooser17]

Limiter strap is on stock setting on both machines. Seen mixed reviews adjusting it on here

 

[fourload]

I am running a 17 Ltd le with 5.7 pilots with 7.5 shaper bars, suspension settings to compression 1 all around. Torsion blocks on 2 as I'm 255 with gear on, front shock spring 1/2" stiffer than stock , my fronts are set soft A arms are pretty much level. It turns very well but lots of effort heavy steering. Darts like a bastard. And bad inside ski lift. I've tried virtually all set ups sled is awful on the trail. Rode a 18 Ltx Dx with pilots wow!!! Totally different sled no dart or ski lift or heavy steering!! Same sled different shocks so frustrating.

I have a ltxdx and mine is almost perfect with the 5.7s .Very little darting and very little push. Also very flat cornering. I use round 8 inch in the center and 4 inch round on the outside. Your shaper bars are real aggressive. My transfer is in position 1 my limiter is also pulled up 1 hole. My front shock springs are almost loose and my center spring is about 1/2 inch stiffer. My back spring is on 2 or 3 depending on the trail. I am sure different shock packages play a huge part on how these things handle! The ltxdx doesn’t have the best shocks but I have mine handling and riding really good. It only needs a little more bottoming resistance on the really bad downhill whoops.

 

[KnappAttack]

So I took off my BOP steering arms tonight and back to stock front steering geometry. When on the stand and with zero toe or parallel for my Snowtrackers, set it on the ground and toe goes out only 1/32" of an inch, might as well say nothing for bump steer, compared to the extreme 3/4" with the BOP easy steer arms just setting it on the ground. No wonder it has been so dang twitchy and imprecise!

Also put the 5.7Race skis back on with the Snowtrackers.


I have 2 - 4" carbide on the Tuners with .4375" host bars. Are those the stock carbides on the Tuner? That seems like large host bars for stock. .375" would seem more stockish or am I wrong? Maybe thats why my tuner skis are so aggressive and hard steering? Anyone know what stock carbides host bars are for the tuners?

 

[journeyman]

So I took off my BOP steering arms tonight and back to stock front steering geometry. When on the stand and with zero toe or parallel for my Snowtrackers, set it on the ground and toe goes out only 1/32" of an inch, might as well say nothing for bump steer, compared to the extreme 3/4" with the BOP easy steer arms just setting it on the ground. No wonder it has been so dang twitchy and imprecise!

Also put the 5.7Race skis back on with the Snowtrackers.


I have 2 - 4" carbide on the Tuners with .4375" host bars. Are those the stock carbides on the Tuner? That seems like large host bars for stock. .375" would seem more stockish or am I wrong? Maybe thats why my tuner skis are so aggressive and hard steering? Anyone know what stock carbides host bars are for the tuners?

Mine are laying over in Miller’s shop. They are totally the way they came from Yamaha. If I get over there tomorrow I will send you a message. Going to pick up those Mohawks today.

 

[Trussman]

So I took off my BOP steering arms tonight and back to stock front steering geometry. When on the stand and with zero toe or parallel for my Snowtrackers, set it on the ground and toe goes out only 1/32" of an inch, might as well say nothing for bump steer, compared to the extreme 3/4" with the BOP easy steer arms just setting it on the ground. No wonder it has been so dang twitchy and imprecise!

Also put the 5.7Race skis back on with the Snowtrackers.


I have 2 - 4" carbide on the Tuners with .4375" host bars. Are those the stock carbides on the Tuner? That seems like large host bars for stock. .375" would seem more stockish or am I wrong? Maybe thats why my tuner skis are so aggressive and hard steering? Anyone know what stock carbides host bars are for the tuners?

That's what my stock 2017 bars are also Mike....

 

[KnappAttack]

That's what my stock 2017 bars are also Mike....

Thank you Trussman. I'm surprised they steer as hard as they do. In their defense however I have not tuned the suspension in for them. I know I have front skid shock spring backed off along with the front ski springs for lower CG, better ride and less rear transfer.

 

[provfisherman]

Well I have stuck with the tuners that came with the sleds, but not because they may or may not be the best ski, but simply because before I had any seat time on them, I installed Rollerskis on the sleds. And since the Rollerskis are designed to fit specific sleds/skis, I have worked on getting the Tuners to work to a level of control that I can live with. After doing some researching online, I tend to side with the argument that on normal (packed snow) non iced trails that wear bars (no carbide) provide the same turning as carbide. So I have found that the best performance for me is 6" carbide with square host bar on the inside keel and a 3/8" round no carbide host bar on the outside keel. However, I have run a hard surfacing weld bead on the no carbide bar just to add the the life. Of course all this goes out the window when the snow plays loosey goosey, but then most wear bars setups do. I have tried various carbide combinations on both keels, but this seems to work the best for the trails I ride.

 

[SAB1]

I loosened up the spring in front of skid for a little more pressure. Now I see why people talk about heavy steering .

 

[Big_Phil]

Well tried the Tuners today. OH man where to start?

Only put on 120 miles but feels like I put on 320 miles! SOB do they steer hard! We had firm conditions and although they go where pointed, they are twitchy and darty, get stuck in ruts, and steer like a SOB! My elbows and shoulders are killing me and I have the BOP power steering arms on too!

I knew right the away the first five miles I had made a mistake going away from my 5.7 Pilot single keel Race skis with snow trackers!

First let me explain why I wanted to try something different and went away from them in the first place. I've been twitching and kinda of unsteady handling for a while, and it dawned on me that its been like this since I've gone to the BOP power steering arms. While the arms do make the Winder steer easier, it also introduces what I'd call a large amount of bump steer.

When I check the toe out with the sled in the air, I get zero toe out or perfectly parallel, when I set it on the ground only I get 3/4" toe out! Compress the suspension further and it toes out even further, so it gets twitchy as the suspension moves, which is easy to see why it would when you see the steering arms not running on the same plane as the a-arms anymore because of the arms.

I think I'm going to need to go away from the easy steer arms as I can't stand the bump steer being this bad. It makes the machine twitchy and unpredictable in steering with the amount of bump steer like that. I didn't have the bump steer without the BOP arms and factory steering geometry. Then I'm going back to the easy steering 5.7R's with Snowtrackers.

If you are getting hard steering with tuners, your setup is way wrong for tuners. They don't like or need a crazy amount of ski pressure. With the stock steering rods there is also alot of bump steer. Get rid of the stock center spring and replace it with a 160lb one. That stock dual rate center spring on the LE models sucks. The first season on my sled I was pretty disappointed with the way it drove and handled vs my Nytro. I put a Bill Mohr center spring in before this season and what a difference. I get better transfer, the sled front end doesnt and shimmy when I let off the gas or hit the brakes. It just always stays level and composed, I love the sled now and have it handling and riding great now. Also, now i dont have to worry about the dual rate spring wearing out the shock body.

 

[KnappAttack]

If you are getting hard steering with tuners, your setup is way wrong for tuners. They don't like or need a crazy amount of ski pressure. With the stock steering rods there is also alot of bump steer. Get rid of the stock center spring and replace it with a 160lb one. That stock dual rate center spring on the LE models sucks. The first season on my sled I was pretty disappointed with the way it drove and handled vs my Nytro. I put a Bill Mohr center spring in before this season and what a difference. I get better transfer, the sled front end doesnt and shimmy when I let off the gas or hit the brakes. It just always stays level and composed, I love the sled now and have it handling and riding great now. Also, now i dont have to worry about the dual rate spring wearing out the shock body.

I have measured no bump steer back to the stock steering. The BOP arms went from zero to 3/4" toe out off the ground to setting on the ground. Stock steering went from zero to just 1/32" toe out off the ground to sitting on the ground, I'd call that nothing with stock setup.

I'm not replacing the center spring because I run SnowTrackers on 5.7Race skis and it steers easy with them. I don't want more transfer, I want less transfer, I can't keep the skis on the ground the way it is with added power and traction.

If I was going to run the tuners I may change it up, but for now I have no desire to adjust rear suspension for steering. SnowTrackers make for positive steering, no darting and easy steering all by themselves. Taking the BOP easy steer arms off will fix all that twitchy stuff I had going on earlier with the extreme bump steer action.

 

[fatchance]

Well tried the Tuners today. OH man where to start?

Only put on 120 miles but feels like I put on 320 miles! SOB do they steer hard! We had firm conditions and although they go where pointed, they are twitchy and darty, get stuck in ruts, and steer like a SOB! My elbows and shoulders are killing me and I have the BOP power steering arms on too!

I knew right the away the first five miles I had made a mistake going away from my 5.7 Pilot single keel Race skis with snow trackers!

First let me explain why I wanted to try something different and went away from them in the first place. I've been twitching and kinda of unsteady handling for a while, and it dawned on me that its been like this since I've gone to the BOP power steering arms. While the arms do make the Winder steer easier, it also introduces what I'd call a large amount of bump steer.

When I check the toe out with the sled in the air, I get zero toe out or perfectly parallel, when I set it on the ground only I get 3/4" toe out! Compress the suspension further and it toes out even further, so it gets twitchy as the suspension moves, which is easy to see why it would when you see the steering arms not running on the same plane as the a-arms anymore because of the arms.

I think I'm going to need to go away from the easy steer arms as I can't stand the bump steer being this bad. It makes the machine twitchy and unpredictable in steering with the amount of bump steer like that. I didn't have the bump steer without the BOP arms and factory steering geometry. Then I'm going back to the easy steering 5.7R's with Snowtrackers.

This was my first thought Mike. I thought they might steer allot harder. I myself don't care if they do, but I know guys like yourself with tendinitis are not going to like the extra steering effort. I Probly have one more year left on the pilots, 2 at best and then I'll consider a different ski.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I ran Semi-Agressive SnoTrackers on my stock Tuners today for 260 miles.
First of all, i was told they don't make an aggressive carbide for the Tuner.
Second of all, OMG! It's like i added power steering.
THE EASIEST SLED TO STEER I'VE EVER RIDDEN!
I loosened up my front rear shock a tad get a bit more bite in high speed corners which helped my ride quality over all.

It's taken me 3 years, but i do not believe i can't improve my handling any more on this sled.
I am now just 1 click on shocks between cruising, high speed or bumpy trails. One Click.....

 

[SumpBuster]

If you lived in my area, I would swap skis with you just so you could try them and make your own decision! We have a lot of tight a.. trails here in Upstate NY and the Curves really work well. I also found my skis on Craigslist for a song and dance. Can you say CHEAP! Lol

Rode Lake Luzerne yesterday and was not happy with my setup. As you said, lots of tight trails, etc. My curves will and have gotten me out of trouble but they were darting, getting caught in what was under the minimal snow cover, etc. They work best under power, but on the slower trails and conditions, too much tracking. Single skags on, but I'm thinking of putting the slim Jims back on before the snow is gone. This is what drivers go through on dirt or asphalt...track or trail conditions change, but I can't change my setup riding. The less confidence you have, the less fun it is. But I have little patience for pushing. Too many brappers who can't stay on their side, so it's up to me to steer when I need to. My single runners are shot though, so that affects it too...middle carbide gone..over 2000 miles so not bad. I have the brand new tuners..maybe 100 miles on them collecting dust..lol.