XS 825 Belt

[snowbeast]

Well after going back to my stock secondary with a Dalton B/O set at 90 degrees on the stock 35 helix, XS825 belt, and trail riding it I am glad to report that my secondary problem has disappeared. No more belt "smear" from over pinching the belt, no slip. Cool clutches. Good performance. RPM almost spot on, I can do some really fine tuning with my clickers. I will use this set up for my upcoming saddlebag trip.
I now have idea what that Pro-4 needs to preform better. I may fool with it at the end of the year if we still have snow....
Thanks Mike for the insight on this as I had never experienced over pinching a belt and the results.

Stain did you try the B/O at less than 90* and if you did,what were your results?

 

[KnappAttack]

I guess I am a little confused as to why that spring needs to be twisted so far,compared to stock yellow on same helix only needs 60* Mike stated the stock yellow binds past 60* and I assume he was speaking of the stock 35 helix,so why does the Dalton b/o on the stock 35 need more than what ben at TD calls good at 70* just saying,can anyone answer. I do understand Mike has been testing all his springs in a drill press,is it clear enough that the B/O spring either version needs 90* wrap compared to stock yellow being ok at 60* confused.. to say the least.

Pete, its easy to confuse you because your not using a drill press or taking notes on the pressure I'm giving you from my drill press scale testing.

Less secondary pressure is fine on the ice or with less HP, but up the power or put in in snow and see how it works for ya.

90* wrap on the B/O is still less finish pressure on my drill press scale than the Tan at 50* or the stock spring at 60*. The B/O has more pressure down low however than either the Tan or stock Yellow.

The B/O has no twist on it when set to 40*, so if you set it to 70* is like really setting it at 30*, which isn't a whole lot. The stock Yellow goes on at 10* with no twist. They all have different spring tang locations. Hows that for confusing?

 

[putz21]

Pete, its easy to confuse you because your not using a drill press or taking notes on the pressure I'm giving you from my drill press scale testing.

Less secondary pressure is fine on the ice or with less HP, but up the power or put in in snow and see how it works for ya.

90* wrap on the B/O is still less finish pressure on my drill press scale than the Tan at 50* or the stock spring at 60*. The B/O has more pressure down low however than either the Tan or stock Yellow.

The B/O has no twist on it when set to 40*, so if you set it to 70* is like really setting it at 30*, which isn't a whole lot. The stock Yellow goes on at 10* with no twist. They all have different spring tang locations. Hows that for confusing?

As I recall, Dalton had an earlier version of the B/O spring. Is the pressure the same wrapped at 90* for the earlier version and the new version or is there a difference?

 

[KnappAttack]

As I recall, Dalton had an earlier version of the B/O spring. Is the pressure the same wrapped at 90* for the earlier version and the new version or is there a difference?

I'm using the V1. They both go on at 40* with no wrap on them.

 

[snowbeast]

Pete, its easy to confuse you because your not using a drill press or taking notes on the pressure I'm giving you from my drill press scale testing.

Less secondary pressure is fine on the ice or with less HP, but up the power or put in in snow and see how it works for ya.

90* wrap on the B/O is still less finish pressure on my drill press scale than the Tan at 50* or the stock spring at 60*. The B/O has more pressure down low however than either the Tan or stock Yellow.

The B/O has no twist on it when set to 40*, so if you set it to 70* is like really setting it at 30*, which isn't a whole lot. The stock Yellow goes on at 10* with no twist. They all have different spring tang locations. Hows that for confusing?

OK thanks Mike,than I will twist either version of his B/O to 90* plus or use stock yellow at 60* which would you recommend?

 

[justinator]

When I talked to Dayco, Gates, and Timken (previously Carlisle) engineers about 2 years ago (when I installed my Razorback IR belt temp gage) they all told me that past 200 degF is death. Technically, they said the bonding agents in the belt and the rubber can withstand 225 but north of 200 there is already degradation of the physical strength of the belt.
That said, IMO if your clutch setup generates temps even close to that, I would say something is not right.
As KA has found out (and me w XS827) in his testing of the XS825 belt for example, we can get by w lower spring pressures (less pinch) and not have slip, and increased efficiency with XS belt. That means lower belt temps and better belt life. Belt is happier.
I run a 320 tune and with back-to-back WOT runs (3/4 mile) I see IR belt temps around 175 max. Normal high-performance trail riding, railroad grades, etc, I see 150-160. So, IMO again if people are seeing 200 something should be looked at.

I purchased a razorback belt temp gauge after reading some of your posts where you mentioned it. I am happy I did for a couple of reasons. Its pricey but I feel better about it once I saw it in action. Its interesting to watch those temps and being able to see when the temps increase or decrease, its not always doing what you'd think it would be doing temp wise. You can easily see the effect on a clutch spring wrap change, or different spring/helix. I also learned that while using a temp gun is better than your hands it still isnt as accurate as the live data from the razorback gauge. It takes time to stop a sled and open a panel and sometimes there could be a big drop in temps by the time you flash a temp gun at it giving you less than accurate numbers. I like how it shows average temp and max temp so you dont have to focus on the gauge while riding. Great tool for final fine tuning of clutching.

 

[fatchance]

I feel like I've made great strides in increasing belt life in the past year. Running the 300R tune for the past year and a half I didn't blow a belt this year even though I used a belt that I had already put miles on prior to this year. I would like to keep tabs on belt temps because I'm constantly fiddling with clutching.

 

[snowbeast]

Back to the xs825 belt,so far it maintains my rpms perfectly and heat at a minimum.I did however run my 8jp for about 100 miles on it,this trip at WO speeds,up to 115-119 gps but it did build more heat than the xs825 does,and does not appear to top end much better. So hear is where my clutchs were at with 8jp belt. The temps after a couple WO runs were 175* down near the crank of the primary,and belt near top was at 185* and the secondary was at 160* a little warmer than I like to see. My IAT,s were 60* to 80* from these runs,my RPM,s were steady at 9000 and my PSI readings were holding steady from 17.7-17.9 run was about 1/2-3/4 mile,snow crusty to bumpy,no smooth hard pack,so my numbers were not where I wanted them to be. Later in the day on a trail which was groomed a day or so ago,i was able to hold it long enough to record my best gps speed yet 119 also 8jp belt. Next day clutching was lightened up by 1.5 grms and xs825 installed,conditions same air temps roughly same around 35* rpms now running close to same @9000 conditions fresh groomed,and not hard pack 116 gps best speed,wish I could get that very hard pack or ice and see what it bangs out for max speed,but I am done for this year,it has been a good year,no break downs or blown belts,and good gas milage,sled now has 190 plus hours around 5300 miles.I did have one small issue with my reverse not wanting to activate when depressed,and giving me a code SD26,now if I shut it off,and restarted it,sometimes it would work,and sometimes not,at times it took a few times restarting to get it to activate. Anyone else have this happen,and what is the fix?

 

[74Nitro]

Back to the xs825 belt,so far it maintains my rpms perfectly and heat at a minimum.I did however run my 8jp for about 100 miles on it,this trip at WO speeds,up to 115-119 gps but it did build more heat than the xs825 does,and does not appear to top end much better. So hear is where my clutchs were at with 8jp belt. The temps after a couple WO runs were 175* down near the crank of the primary,and belt near top was at 185* and the secondary was at 160* a little warmer than I like to see. My IAT,s were 60* to 80* from these runs,my RPM,s were steady at 9000 and my PSI readings were holding steady from 17.7-17.9 run was about 1/2-3/4 mile,snow crusty to bumpy,no smooth hard pack,so my numbers were not where I wanted them to be. Later in the day on a trail which was groomed a day or so ago,i was able to hold it long enough to record my best gps speed yet 119 also 8jp belt. Next day clutching was lightened up by 1.5 grms and xs825 installed,conditions same air temps roughly same around 35* rpms now running close to same @9000 conditions fresh groomed,and not hard pack 116 gps best speed,wish I could get that very hard pack or ice and see what it bangs out for max speed,but I am done for this year,it has been a good year,no break downs or blown belts,and good gas milage,sled now has 190 plus hours around 5300 miles.I did have one small issue with my reverse not wanting to activate when depressed,and giving me a code SD26,now if I shut it off,and restarted it,sometimes it would work,and sometimes not,at times it took a few times restarting to get it to activate. Anyone else have this happen,and what is the fix?

Could be the servo motor going bad or also belt too tight. I didn't think the belt too tight would activate a code, but I found out for myself I was wrong.
Hey, I'm tuning a 2019 SRX with all stock clutching for power levels of 250-275(bundle). The owner is heading to Quebec next week.
DTYA weights. I have no snow to test. I'm thinking grinding them to 72 grams. Thoughts? Anyone else feel free to chime in.

 

[snowbeast]

Could be the servo motor going bad or also belt too tight. I didn't think the belt too tight would activate a code, but I found out for myself I was wrong.
Hey, I'm tuning a 2019 SRX with all stock clutching for power levels of 250-275(bundle). The owner is heading to Quebec next week.
DTYA weights. I have no snow to test. I'm thinking grinding them to 72 grams. Thoughts? Anyone else feel free to chime in.

Hi Nitro,i am running the DTYA weights ground down from empty 75 roughly,to 71.5 and than I tune to whatever I need to hold at 9000-9100 for my max16 tune.Right now I am at 72.8 with only one 3/8 slug in tip. I am also running TP orange primary spring,and stock 35 with TP orange @50* wrap for 9100 rpms. Now as far as my reverse,my belt deflection is near perfect,at 1 1/2" does anyone know what that sd26 code is?

 

[74Nitro]

Hi Nitro,i am running the DTYA weights ground down from empty 75 roughly,to 71.5 and than I tune to whatever I need to hold at 9000-9100 for my max16 tune.Right now I am at 72.8 with only one 3/8 slug in tip. I am also running TP orange primary spring,and stock 35 with TP orange @50* wrap for 9100 rpms. Now as far as my reverse,my belt deflection is near perfect,at 1 1/2" does anyone know what that sd26 code is?

My bad, I think the reverse code is sd08.
Sd26 is air pressure sensor I think

 

[ClutchMaster]

Hi Nitro,i am running the DTYA weights ground down from empty 75 roughly,to 71.5 and than I tune to whatever I need to hold at 9000-9100 for my max16 tune.Right now I am at 72.8 with only one 3/8 slug in tip. I am also running TP orange primary spring,and stock 35 with TP orange @50* wrap for 9100 rpms. Now as far as my reverse,my belt deflection is near perfect,at 1 1/2" does anyone know what that sd26 code is?

https://ty4stroke.com/threads/sd-26-code-80mph-limp-mode.145660/

 

[actionjack]

Back to the xs825 belt,so far it maintains my rpms perfectly and heat at a minimum.I did however run my 8jp for about 100 miles on it,this trip at WO speeds,up to 115-119 gps but it did build more heat than the xs825 does,and does not appear to top end much better. So hear is where my clutchs were at with 8jp belt. The temps after a couple WO runs were 175* down near the crank of the primary,and belt near top was at 185* and the secondary was at 160* a little warmer than I like to see. My IAT,s were 60* to 80* from these runs,my RPM,s were steady at 9000 and my PSI readings were holding steady from 17.7-17.9 run was about 1/2-3/4 mile,snow crusty to bumpy,no smooth hard pack,so my numbers were not where I wanted them to be. Later in the day on a trail which was groomed a day or so ago,i was able to hold it long enough to record my best gps speed yet 119 also 8jp belt. Next day clutching was lightened up by 1.5 grms and xs825 installed,conditions same air temps roughly same around 35* rpms now running close to same @9000 conditions fresh groomed,and not hard pack 116 gps best speed,wish I could get that very hard pack or ice and see what it bangs out for max speed,but I am done for this year,it has been a good year,no break downs or blown belts,and good gas milage,sled now has 190 plus hours around 5300 miles.I did have one small issue with my reverse not wanting to activate when depressed,and giving me a code SD26,now if I shut it off,and restarted it,sometimes it would work,and sometimes not,at times it took a few times restarting to get it to activate. Anyone else have this happen,and what is the fix?

Actuator going bad is my guess. You might be able to remove the cover, clean and grease it. Dealer replaced mine under warranty.

 

[snowbeast]

My bad, I think the reverse code is sd08.
Sd26 is air pressure sensor I think

Wow I just don't get it,my sled runs awesome,well past 80 mph,and it only happens when I stop and have to use reverse,hit the button and nothing,as soon as the button has been depressed,the code comes up on the dash,the only way I can get it to activate the reverse,is to shut it down,and restart it,and than most of the time it works.

 

[snowbeast]

Actuator going bad is my guess. You might be able to remove the cover, clean and grease it. Dealer replaced mine under warranty.

Hi jack,ya might be,i guess it will have to wait till next fall,i am done for this year.