Yamaha and Snocross

[spike337]

Cross Country racing results would sell me on a sled before Snow Cross results would.
Lake Geneva is about the only track i find Snow Cross interesting to watch anymore.

 

[yamahaorelse]

I would sure like to know how the economics play a factor in this? there must be merit in it if the other three brands are doing it? or maybe there not and there all independent sponsors? but then that leaves me to wonder why the other three brands are so attractive to the independents. I would think that Yamaha could build a race sled that could compete in the top three. From the advertising and sales side of things it does not appear to make sense, especially when the others have all invested in it? it must pay.

 

[yamahabandit]

I know it sounds like ancient history to some of you guys, but in '97 when we rode a Cat in the I-500 with 200 entrants and over 500 people at the awards banquet , not 1 person anywhere with a Yamaha. We thought at the time that Yamaha was missing out big time and still are. Whatever happened to "What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday" I guess Yamaha doesn't believe it.

 

[AKrider]

Yeah, I don't know what it is with Yamaha and snowmachine racing? They support moto/supercross, off road dirt bike and ATV racing but when it comes to sleds they have a history of putting on a big production and then quitting after a few years. They are plenty involved in racing for motorcycles and ATVs but maybe because sleds are not as big of a priority for Yamaha as they are for Cat, Polaris and Doo they just aren't on the their corporate radar?

 

[Heritage]

I dont blame yamaha for not racing...it does very
little for sales. And everytime yamaha builds
a winner..they get band, or the other three ask
for a rule change...id be pizzed too if I was yamaha.
why bother??
For those who dont know...it started in formula 3.
in the 1991-1992 season, the vmax 4 dominated the
circut, winning 11 of 14 races that season..tim bender
set a track record speed of 114 mph on the back straight
away, in antigo wisconsin...a speed that even the current
champ sleds dont touch..the next season skidoo, cat, and
polaris said they " were too fast and dangerous"..so they
limited cc's to 600, and yamaha was out of formula 3, and
done with ussa.
Then after a good sno cross season, with chris vincent, they
changed pro stock from 600 to 440..limiting what yamaha
could do as they chose not to make a limited build 440 (they have
always been against that)...it also limited who would drive for them
because most drivers wanted to run both stock, and pro mod.
So once again yamaha faded from the picture.
THEn, the apex dominates the soo, and gets banned, after doo, poo,
and cat cried about it.
So why should yamaha field a race team?? Everytime they make
a winner, they get screwed....plus like somebody else said, snow cross
is dying. What wins on sunday, sells on mondays...died along time
ago.

 

[yamahas]

Cross Country racing results would sell me on a sled before Snow Cross results would.

X2! Or long distance records..

 

[spike337]

USSA shut down the speeds with the 600cc limit, not the 3 other brands. Yamaha could've raced their 600 V-Max, right? Chris Vincent raced in open, not 440. 440 has been the 'Pro class' since the early 90s with the XCR, ZR, and MX days. If anything, series helped Yamaha by changing the rules to let them run. Like kits on Phazers (old style) for Xctry, formula 56 with 63 'hp' cylinders on the SRV, big cc sleds in too small of cc classes because they are 4 strokes. If it wasn't for Tim Bender, i don't know if they would've won a race in history besides Ed Shabitski on his SRXs, lol, a bit exagerated there, but i know i'm missing some other rule changes. I use to race Yamahas in the 80s, Poos in the mid 90s, and Doo late 90s, and now knit and play bingo.

 

[yamahaorelse]

Maybe its one of those things where your messed if you do and messed if you dont. I would think that if the weight thing is a issue like someone mentioned then Yamaha would want to be out there showing that it isnt, but by not being out there, they could be saying we cant do it, we cant be and run with the other 3? I dont know, but I cant help but think that if they could put a winner out their then that would translate into sales, they must think this with super cross and super bikes?

 

[spike337]

I think that's where their money is, west coast super bikes and moto cross. (plus water craft, atvs and side X sides)They maybe can't keep all 3 on top of technology, so they put it into then top 2 money makers, and 'tune up' the bread and butter sleds like the Vec and Ape. Yamaha always tests a new unit for 3 years before it's out for production, so i'm sure there is something coming, maybe very well thought out and thoroughly planned, just waiting for the 'go ahead' from the 'big brass' to open up and let them build it? They ARE capable, if you don't believe that, you've never riden their moto cross bikes, super bikes, atvs, and even out board boat motors are awesome from what i hear. My 2008 WR250R DuelSport bike was "all new" and is a very hot item! So they were developing that, and the Phazer, and probably starting the Nytro at the same time. That's a lot of R&D!
This is nothing "i heard" so to speak, just my 2cent opinion.

 

[Blue Hornet]

Pretty much in snowcross if you dont have Tucker your screwed and are gonna lose anyway so why bother. It seemed in the late 90's the better sled won, then Blair Morgan and Tucker Hibbert absolutely destroyed what I think alot of people wanted to see which was the best sled winning. Like AK rider said they have never established any type of support for any length of time in any snowmobile racing and I think it has really hurt them overall rather than save them cash in the last 20 years. If it works so well in bikes and quads why wouldnt it work in snowmobiling. They dont need a huge arsenal of pro riders and big semis to be involved, how about supporting from the bottom up and building a support network that actually works. I really think that Jesse Strege could have done some good for racing but I guess he got dumped as well as all support. I hope Yamaha wakes up someday.

 

[Heritage]

USSA shut down the speeds with the 600cc limit, not the 3 other brands. Yamaha could've raced their 600 V-Max, right? Chris Vincent raced in open, not 440. 440 has been the 'Pro class' since the early 90s with the XCR, ZR, and MX days. If anything, series helped Yamaha by changing the rules to let them run. Like kits on Phazers (old style) for Xctry, formula 56 with 63 'hp' cylinders on the SRV, big cc sleds in too small of cc classes because they are 4 strokes. If it wasn't for Tim Bender, i don't know if they would've won a race in history besides Ed Shabitski on his SRXs, lol, a bit exagerated there, but i know i'm missing some other rule changes. I use to race Yamahas in the 80s, Poos in the mid 90s, and Doo late 90s, and now knit and play bingo.

Ussa outlawed the vmax 4...for the reasons I gave above..(i know, because I interviewed tim bender about it in 1992) would you
race a vmax 600 twin, against a formula 3 ski doo, or zrt 600?
tim bender was awesome...but dont forget that guy useldinger, steve houle,
jim wergin, and the devault brothers all won plenty of races
for yamaha. As far as the SOO goes, mira slit their own
throat by banning the apex. attendance has been way down since
they did that ( at mira events).

 

[Heritage]

Also..spike..i was refering to pro stock 600..yes they had
pro stock 600 class in snow cross...yamaha was the only
one using a 600 in it...everybody else ran 440s in that
class. I spoke to two different engineers with yamaha at
eagle river..i asked why no 440 for racing?? They never
went into detail, but said " we will not do that"..and they never
have. Its kinda sad, because if anyone can build a fast 440, its yamaha
(sr, srx, gpx, all awesome 440 class sleds).

Im telling ya the vmax 4 stuff pissed yamaha off..they dumped
tons of money into that race program,, and basically had to wipe
their #*$&@ with it the next year.

 

[Heritage]

Btw...id rather watch vintage races, than slocross...lol

 

[shadow44]

And you best be built like a brick $@it house.

Not really spike...Iain Hayden was not a big guy at all...maybe 150lbs at best...he threw thay Nytro around as good as any of the other guys. The Nytro in last years race was also nothing like what is in production..other than motor and body panels...the rest was all different...even the gas tank was tiny and at the rear of the sled....enough gas for the race, probably no more than 2 gallons. Here's a couple pics or last years sled.

 

[spike337]

Heritage, Yamaha had a long, long time to come up with a 440, and they never did. I was waiting for one too. I owned a 76 44 SRX. My brother and i always would say "Drop and SRX motor in somethin")lol. You also brought up some very big names that i have forgotton about. I know Jim Wergin raced some stock Yamahas, i raced against him once, when snow cross was almost like an ice le mans, with a sled i bought from Dale Loritz, a F56 Yamaha SRV. Mike Houle, Guy, J Appleson, were all on Poos, weren't they? Houle was Bad a$$!
This is getting interesting, lol. Lets grab a 12 pack and meet at the HOF in Eagle River and wonder around. That place is great! You have a better memory then i do, but i'm glad because i learned some 'fun facts'.
Shadow, that Nytro is showroom compared to the one they brought to Spirit Mountain for the opener.