Yamaha and Snocross

[spike337]

Jut talked to a pretty darn knowledgable friend of mine. He says Doug Henrys supercross bike, a YZM400F was around $350,000. bike. But look where that led. I would love to see Yamaha with a very light snow cross sled, radical, but not totally like the Phazer, with a liquid, AND a fan engine choice. I keep thinking about the 250 Raptor, or even the 125 Raptor. What kid wouldn't want one, yet they are 'for real', and can win races.

 

[shadow44]

Shadow, that Nytro is showroom compared to the one they brought to Spirit Mountain for the opener.

I beg to differ Spike....that sled is far from showroom..take a closer look. That is the only sled that ran in the pro open mod class last season...with the exception of blue body panels for USA races....and the Black Monster Energy for CSRA races. I spent alot of time looking that sled over and talking with Iain Hayden...not even close a production unit.

 

[spike337]

I was jokingly exagerating with the 'show room' statement. That is not the sled they started out with at Spirit Mtn, as they told everyone they wouldn't have the 'good one' ready untill the next event. That one resembled a blue Nytro. It was in the "My Yamaha" because i remember reading about it, sending pictures of it to my friends, and seeing the new one at the next race.

 

[spike337]

The only thing i found searching so far is on you tube. Look up "2006 Yamaha Open Snowcross sled" That is the first proto type race sled that i saw and know of.

 

[spike337]

Here's th one i was thinking about. Spirit Mtn. 2006. the other one is the sled you're talking about, right?

 

[shadow44]

Lol, now I understand what you meant....The Spirit Mtn one was the first one the Robbie Malanowski rode...then the first full FX Nytro appearance came at the Brainard Race where he won...that was a sweet sled. You are right, the one in the middle pic is the same sled I posted pics of, just with the blue body work...I think that sled is even different from the original sled that Malenowski rode...they went through several changes over the 3 seasons they raced...at least the suspension was...the original used production front a-arms and spindles..the last version is way different...I still think it was the best looking/sounding sled in Sno-X...I should ask Hindle if he can locate it...he was one of the spnosers last season and knows the guys who ran the team very well....I probably couldn't afford though lol

 

[AKrider]

My long time Yamaha dealer who had connections with the Yamaha factory guys repeatedly told me they'd never produce a 440 because it didn't fit their product line and wouldn't sell enough to make money. He was telling me this back in the late 90's. He also said they wouldn't produce a limited build race sled because it was a money loser.

From what I gather, its just a philosophy difference between the OEM's. Cat puts a major emphasis on racing and is willing to sell their sno-pro at a discount so their sled fills starting lines across America. Polaris is putting more of an emphasis on advertising, big tricks (Levi's failed New Years show) and free riding with Burant. Doo already has 1/3 of the market so they don't need to advertise or promote racing as much. Yamaha seems to be focused on aging baby boomers and sells sleds loaded with creature comforts to appeal to groomed trail riders.

After reading Chris's posts on Sled Talk, I suspect that Yamaha's core market is not the type that frequents forums such as this one or cares too much about performance. They want a reliable, trouble free sled that can be ridden for years without having engine problems. I suspect they sell way more Apexs and Vectors than they do Phazers or especially Nytros. Makes it tough for us performance enthusiasts as they don't offer anything new that gets us excited.

What wins on Sunday sells on Monday is still true for a certain market segment. Now that the Rush won the Iron Dog, I see it as legitimate suspension technology and not just marketing. I now want to ride one and see what the hype is all about. Compare that with Yamaha as anyone who's ridden an '07 Phazer or an '08 Nytro and they already know what a '12 Nytro and Phazer are all about.

 

[spike337]

Interesting stuff. Like i said, i could spend all day at the Hall Of Fame in St Germain Wi looking at all the old stuff that use to 'WOW' me as a kid. I really like to sit down with a group of the mechanics back then and listen to things they tried and believed in. Someday i want to buy a vintage sled that 'WOWed' me during my grade school days. As of now, i'd like to find a blue 300 twin Enticer to ride on vintage rides.

 

[Alatalo]

Too bad there is no Yamaha in the top level class. Still, I am convinced that this scenario would have been completely different if the whole effort would have been run as a proper, Japan based factory team. The so called factory team that ran the four stroke effort was about as far away from factory back-up as you could ever get, thus far behind the factory connection of the other manufacturers. If Yamaha would have done it the way they introduced four strokes in motocross (and in MotoGP, together with others), the whole circus could have looked quite different by today...

 

[AKrider]

Agreed! I spoke to Jesse Strege last spring and at that time he said Yamaha wasn't sure what they were going to do and they weren't telling him anything.

Yamaha could have done so much better with the Nytro had they not put all their eggs in one basket with only two supported riders in sno-x. Instead of building a handful of super expensive and exotic pro-open Nytros, they could have spread the wealth and offered discounted Nytros to many grassroots racers. This would have worked great for XC racing but their focus was sno-x.

My suspicions on why they didn't take this approach in sno-x is because the stock Nytro isn't/wasn't a strong enough chassis and would have damaged their reputation by having Nytros snap spindles, bend a-arms, front torque arms and subframes in fronts of tens of thousands of people. In my opinion the whole Nytro in sno-x thing was purely a marketing stunt that worked for the 2008 intro of a consumer Nytro.

Instead, had they focused or switched their focus to XC racing, they would have been able to build credibility and developed the Nytro into a very good cross country sled. Instead, the Nytro seems to have the reputation as a heavy, ill handing sled that just doesn't compare to the other OEM's ditch banging sleds. The resale of Nytro's here in AK sucks. The perception is no one cares how good the motor is because the sled is too heavy and doesn't handle. Kinda hard to sway their opinion when they don't see the Nytro competing and doing well in anything on the national level.

 

[spike337]

I'm sure TV time has a lot to do where they put their money. I don't think anyone covers cross country, and that stinks! I'd love to see a multi episode of the whole series with behind the scenes and stuff like that.
I still vote that a cross country finish for a Yamaha would sell me more then Tucker winning on a Cat in snow cross every weekend. He's so good, he's almost bad for the sport, lol. They should make him carry a passenger on the back, so others had a 'slight chance' then, lol.

 

[kingedwards99]

I'd love to see James "Bubba" Stewart do a cross over to snowcross just like Danika Patrick in Nascar, just for Half the races. I know it's just wishful thinking and he prabably has never been on a snowmobile but i'm sure it would be fun for him nontheless,Or perhaps his brother Malcom he's a bigger kid and still new to supercross, Either that or offer Tucker a ride on a factory ride yamaha snowmobile and bike we know he likes to ride motorcross and would like to excell in it. But his father is a big part of ACs racing program and helped with there sleds. But Money Talks!

 

[LJ 452]

What wins on the sno-x track may not relate to what you do with a sled, but wouldn't you like to have the r and d that goes alone with racing backing up how your sled is designed? Take for instance the Nytro, while no trail ride would want the shock valving that the race sled had but I'm willing to bet just about every person on this forum would prefer the front end that the race sled had. Not for geometry reasons but strength and durability reasons. Guess what happens when you use the same parts for racing as your production? The race sled doesn't cost $500,000 plus you get grass roots teams using your product, whichever equals more sales to the public as they see your product performing. This applies for both the actual racers and the wannabe racers. What I've learned about my Nytro over the past few years is that it isn't competitive (race) in $500,000 form let alone stoke form. Meanwhile I can go and race another brands sled right from the factory. Mmm let me think about which brand I want to ride.

 

[yam177]

I'm sure TV time has a lot to do where they put their money. I don't think anyone covers cross country, and that stinks! I'd love to see a multi episode of the whole series with behind the scenes and stuff like that.
I still vote that a cross country finish for a Yamaha would sell me more then Tucker winning on a Cat in snow cross every weekend. He's so good, he's almost bad for the sport, lol. They should make him carry a passenger on the back, so others had a 'slight chance' then, lol.

MN inside sports did some segments this year. Also a few years back sled head 24/7 covered a few races

 

[yam177]

Lol, now I understand what you meant....The Spirit Mtn one was the first one the Robbie Malanowski rode...then the first full FX Nytro appearance came at the Brainard Race where he won...that was a sweet sled. You are right, the one in the middle pic is the same sled I posted pics of, just with the blue body work...I think that sled is even different from the original sled that Malenowski rode...they went through several changes over the 3 seasons they raced...at least the suspension was...the original used production front a-arms and spindles..the last version is way different...I still think it was the best looking/sounding sled in Sno-X...I should ask Hindle if he can locate it...he was one of the spnosers last season and knows the guys who ran the team very well....I probably couldn't afford though lol

Sorry but I know for a fact that sled was crushed.

The sled Henry rode in the Xgames was the Mod sled from XC racing the year before.