Yamaha, customers are talking to you...read!

[Superstroker1]

 

[RedRX1]

Regarding "C" It would seem to me that the lake racers and mountain guys would want the high HP. Not the rough trail or ditch banging sleds, they need low weight and agility instead of mass and muscle.

I'd like to see "D", but with some real wind protection out front for the long rides.

 

[Red2003]

Regarding "C" It would seem to me that the lake racers and mountain guys would want the high HP. Not the rough trail or ditch banging sleds, they need low weight and agility instead of mass and muscle.

I'd like to see "D", but with some real wind protection out front for the long rides.

I agree. 170 HP in Apex Mountain and then some lake racer special like an Apex SXR???? 170 HP, 8 in. travel instead of 11.5. Low, lean and fast in a strait line right from the box. Give us something to shut up the Mach Z guys once and for all. Also, how about Simmons skis stock. Yammi sleds have a bad rep. for darting. Fix it from the factory. It's bad enough they are heavy in the tight twisties, but to have to muscle them in a strait line too is too much.

 

[craze1cars]

Ooohhh...GOOD TOPIC. I (we) can have a lot fun with this one. Maybe in our dreams somebody important will actually read it and use some ideas. I love brainstorming....here goes:


1. As for what Yamaha has to offer? This will be short. They offer plenty, that's why I own one. As far as I'm concerned, they currently offer more than their competition. And I agree with most of the initial post above. Oustanding 4 stroke engines...smooth, powerful, reliable, good fuel mileage. And build quality overall seems to be second to none. BUT...they cannot rest on their haunches here, the others are making great strides to close the quality gap.


2. What does Yamaha lack? Nothing is EVER good enough for me...so here goes.

I am not a member of the the "bigger HP is better" bandwagon. Being the fastest is simply not important to me, but they do need to be fast. And they are. Your engines are pretty durn good just as they are. Keep 'em current and keep 'em coming. I trust your judgement in that department Yamaha. But what about the rest of the equation?

a. Yamaha lacks a crossover sled for midwest boondocking. Something along the lines of Renegade/Crossfire. The Attak and Rage are not crossovers...they're mostly trail sleds out of the box with some extra track length. The Mountain Apex is too much sled for daily trail riding and tight trees. The Phazer mountain may be very flickable, but lacks the power and wind protection needed for the trail riding part of a crossover's life. Fill the gap...120 to 150 hp, light weight, better track, better attack angle, maybe tipped rails, wider skis, grab bar, maybe adjustable ski stance, but make sure it keeps its "cornering on rails" and smooth riding trail manners.

b. I'll expand on the previous cry for more innovation in the driveline. I agree with Superstroker 100%. Yami's clutches are very old designs, designed for 2 stroke RPMs and powerbands. And even at that they are not nearly as effective as some of the competition's clutches. The high RPMs some motors generate result in the need for a complex/expensive/heavy/HP robbing gear reduction system to slow the clutches down to clutch-friendly RPMs. The chaincase/jackshaft design with mechanical reverse is technology of the 70's, as is the whole HP robbing primary/secondary/belt driveline. It's time for someone to step up and completely change how HP is transferred from engine to track. The wider HP/torque curve of a 4 stroke allows a LOT of room to improve on this part of these sleds...doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a CVT system. And I can't think of a better manufacturer to try to tackle this problem. I'd even be willing to shift my own gears....howsabout a 6 speed manual tranny and simple clutch taken from your motorcycle line? Our toes can shift and brake too if necessary. Or go high tech with electronic auto-clutch shifters activated by a quick wrist click, or paddle-type shifting with thumb buttons? Eliminating the antique slipping belt CVT system would allow a smaller, lighter, lower HP engines which could put as much HP to the GROUND as the competition's bigger higher hp engines. The weight savings of the smaller engines would make them more competitive. Even simpler, how about exploring direct drive? Just flat eliminate the chaincase. Polaris did it in the 80's....Cat has their ACT system now. There's ways to do this, and I'm sure you can do better than EITHER of those mfrs. I personally don't need reverse if that helps push you along.

c. Weight is still an issue. Dress it up all you want in advertising campaigns, your sleds are noticably heavier than the competition's 2 strokes. Some of it is completely senseless fat and can be easily trimmed. Why do we have an entire separate lever/cable/caliper/pads for a simple parking brake? All you need is a 1/2 ounce plastic lever to hold the main brake lever closed. Why can't I order an Attak WITHOUT the heavy and complicated mechanical reverse? Why are my new aftermarket skis several inches longer, wider, and have fatter/longer wear-bars, yet they're several pounds LIGHTER than the stock skis/bars? They're all simple molded plastic, no exotic expensive materials here...Yamaha, make a new mold for your skis RIGHT NOW...while you're at it, make sure they're lighter and better handling. Mass centralizaion still needs some more work....here's a simple one...move the battery out of the nose and under the seat from the factory.

c. continued....As for other areas of weight savings, I'm sure some more attention could be given to replacing some more steel componants with aluminum, titanium, magnesium, or again PLASTIC. I think plastic is the holy grail here that hasn't been explored enough yet. Plastic suspension rails, plastic front and rear suspension arms. Let's get your engineers onto designing a fully plastic one-piece CHASSIS. Make it as strong or stronger than what you build now and save tons of weight. Plastic is much cheaper than exotic metals, and often more durable. Less parts, less mfg costs, no corrosion, fully recycleable...I can't come up with a negative. Sure, some parts may have to look a little chunky and different from what we're used to, but since when has Yamaha ever been afraid of making something LOOK a little different? That's what I thought....NEVER. Besides, plastic can be molded into ANY beautiful shape while still having great strength. USE IT.

d. Wind protection is IMPORTANT to snowmobilers. Kudos on stripping weight from the Phazer, but I will never buy it for ANY trail riding because much of the weight savings was at the expense of quality wind protection. The huge windshield option is helpful for the head and torso, but what about the rest of my body? Let's get your future sleds into a wind tunnel, not just to look for a low coeff of drag at high speeds, but to look at how the wind works against the rider. COMFORT is critical.


Well...I'm done for now. But I may come back and add some more later. What would I do if I owned my own snowmobile manufacturing company? hmmmmm. I guess I'm giving away all my secrets. But that's OK beacuse I'm too lazy to ever implement them. But my pockets are pretty deep, so hopefully someone else will take some of my ideas for their product, and I'll be first in line to buy and use it. If it happens to be a Yamaha, that's great. But if it's the competition that beats them to the punch, then bye bye Yamaha....

 

[Sidewinder]

Build a 170-180 hp RTX Im there.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MadMax]

What he said.......and said......and said.... Plus fix the stupid rear skids guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1 thing.................. Make a mini sled for the kids like the other three.. If a kid starts out on a cool yammie, sure as $hit he will form a bond and want a bigger one someday.. This has pi$$ed me of for years..... MM.

 

[snowbeast]

Yes why does it always have to go to the mountain boys,we flat landers have the same right to have the most hp as well,i agree give us 170+ hp trail sled,with standard travel enough said.

 

[Oak Hill]

Excellent topic. Yamaha is doing well with gaining market share. But they must forge ahead with new designs and technology to keep gaining Market Share. I would like to see the following:

1. Fastest production sled ever built - limited build! This sells sleds!

2. More color choices

3. More electronics (gauges, oil pressure, water temp, compass, GPS)

4. Build your own sled (like Ski-Doo) Spring Order only! (choose your color, suspension, shocks and accessories).

5. New technology for clutching/chain case

6. Lighter weight

7. Ski design - eliminate darting


Some of these items where mentioned above in previous replies, but the more they see the same requests, the better the chance of it making it to
production. Keep up the excellent work YAMAHA!

 

[yamahajunkie]

just would like to know what sleds 06 that you have ridden superstroker1? hard to find many flaws with whats out there now. each sled thats out there seems to be in the right catagory rough trail/ groomed trail/ mountain and such. your not going to get a mod sled, you have to build that yourself.

 

[craze1cars]

3. More electronics (gauges, oil pressure, water temp, compass, GPS)

OOOOHHHHHH! YES!!! I forgot to write that one...GPS GPS GPS GPS...

ALL sleds should have an integrated color-screen, upgradable/dowloadable map GPS available for purchase as an option...just sell it as an optional dash pod. I can't believe none of the mfrs are offering this NOW, as it is becoming optional on just about every single car these days.

 

[craze1cars]

hard to find many flaws with whats out there now.

This is a matter of opinion, and I disagree. I can sit on my 07 Attak and point out maybe 40 "flaws" if that's what we want to call them. Not that anything is actually wrong, just a bunch of misc stuff I'd like to be different. Yet it's the closest thing to perfect I could find to fit my desires in the current model year, so I bought it and will thoroughly enjoy it.

This is what innovation and market research and testing is all about...nitpicking the crap outta this stuff and gradually working toward the impossible goal: The PERFECT sled. Maybe in some small way a post like this will help bring us closer to that goal.

 

[happytrails]

All this sounds really good, but how many people would anti-up if this drove the cost of sleds up to the $15,000 range.

 

[DoktorC]

All this sounds really good, but how many people would anti-up if this drove the cost of sleds up to the $15,000 range.

All of the Canadians lol.


I do like the idea of some more power and I like the idea of the GPS!!! Finally an accurate speedo from Yamaha lol.

The drive system...why would you change the drive system?? Even cars are now going to CVT...AND what the heck would we do for fun if we has a set gear set in a transmition lol. I still believe that the CVT is the way to go on a sled. It's light, efficient, cheap, durable, and easy to fix/mod.

I think the constant refinement has to keep up. We're at a level now that we couldn't even dream of 10 years ago but through constant development Yamaha has become a market leader (again)..now the sales have to catch up. I'm doing a fall tune-up on my boss's '93 Veture XL. I cannot believe that we used to drive those sleds so far and actually crowd around to see the new '93's back then lol. Crazy!!

 

[yamahajunkie]

All this sounds really good, but how many people would anti-up if this drove the cost of sleds up to the $15,000 range.

right on!!!!

 

[Crewchief47]

#1 thing.................. Make a mini sled for the kids like the other three.. If a kid starts out on a cool yammie, sure as $hit he will form a bond and want a bigger one someday.. This has pi$$ed me of for years..... MM.

Yep, build some brand loyalty from the early years. I would think this would fall into basic brand marketing guidlines but what do I know.