Yamaha done with sleds

[74Nitro]

Yamaha was too stubborn. They wouldn't listen to us and ultimately got out marketed by junk 2 smokes. Ski doo and poo has created a profitable model of making disposable sleds that helps keep sales up, and marketing them as superior. A chart of the length of ownership of a single sled by manf would be interesting. I am assuming it would be bi-model with 3 at 1-3 years and Yam with 10+ lol

They had a rock star with the Apex, no one hated the engine. The chassis (the die cast part) was lightweight and well engineered. Then they go and add 300lbs, and crappy suspension to it. Why? A new redesigned tunnel, muffler seat, revisions to the shock calibration that companies like Hygear even spelled out for them and calibrate it to be playful with light ski weight and they could have made 4 strokes a better brand like they wanted.

In my lean manf consulting I always look for what operators have "jerry rigged" or modified from standard process because 100% of the time its better, faster, or cheaper then the engineered ways.

Yammie saw what people were doing to their machines, what they were complaining about and yet did nothing. The shock absorber fixed on both ends on the rear bumper in 2018 just showed how out of touch they were. Creating eccentric technologies that consumers didn't care about and refusing to listen.

The psychological game that Ski Doo started and Polaris has finished was brilliant. Yam sleds were better and the ONLY thing they could do for their base to stay with them is call them fat sloppy overweight pigs, that's it and they pulled it off brilliantly. Loyal Ski Doo owners will not even throw a leg over a sidewinder because its "too heavy", and the marketing department has brainwashed them.

Anyone of us old timers on this site could have been asked by Yamaha to sit on a voice of the customer committee for free and we would have done it. That would have saved the brand IMO. The weight is so played out and now we know it doesn't really matter to the main driver of sales in the trail category. Imagine a apex with a sleek tunnel, 6lb muffler, and slim seat, with a rear suspension moved forward 2" so it wheelies on command, or you slide forward for it to corner. They were so close...

Good post Kinger.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

BRP is a marketing company that just happens to sell snowmobiles!

 

[74Nitro]

There's more passion from members on this website than there has been at the Yamaha sled division for a long time.

 

[earthling]

BRP is a marketing company that just happens to sell snowmobiles!

BRP is a company with a competent and maybe more importantly, well funded marketing department.

 

[Stubbs]

@kinger touched on it, but the lack of decent suspension/chassis calibration has always been a weekness for the big Y. All three of the other OEMs do a much better job of delivering a product off the showroom floor that performs well for the average person without a bunch of fiddling by the end user. If the majority of the 4 stroke models had hit the snow dialled in well like the other manufacturers the reluctance to accept them as a truly viable option would have wained quite quickly. If there was ever a time for Yammy to get their #*$&@ together with the ride/handling side of things it was at the point of no return going all in on 4 strokes only. If you spent the time and a little money updating some hardware and doing some adjusting all of these sleds can perform as well as comparable segment sleds, but Joe average coming from another brand wants to just get on and ride like they always have. It’s really a shame because as a whole Yamaha has always built a superior product from a DQR standpoint, they’ve just never been able to deliver them performing as well as they could/should have out of the box.

 

[journeyman]

Both Kinger and Stubbs….very true!!

I am not a SxS junkie but a few friends of mine are. It sure sounds like Yamaha is not listening in that arena either as Polaris and Can Am are also owning that market.

 

[earthling]

Both Kinger and Stubbs….very true!!

I am not a SxS junkie but a few friends of mine are. It sure sounds like Yamaha is not listening in that arena either as Polaris and Can Am are also owning that market.

Much of Yamahas problems comes from underfunded and a bit out-of-touch marketing.

 

[journeyman]

Much of Yamahas problems comes from underfunded and a bit out-of-touch marketing.

I agree with that.

One of my good friends who I have snowmobiled with for 25 years is one of the guys that has switched over to Side x Sides. He was a diehard Yamaha guy too, still owns a supercharged Attak. He went with the X3 Can Am turbo. Whether it’s better or worse the CA and the RZR use a CVT drivetrain which as we know is like an automatic transmission. Yamaha continues to use the finger shift, their suspension gets dogged on that the geometry is off and apparently the 998T is not allowed because of some silly rule the industry voted on. Just like the sled industry Poo and BRP are leading the way. But we know Kawasaki and Honda also have Side x Sides but I don’t see them jumping out front either. I think the Japanese are just a different breed when it comes to marketing. They know they make reliable products and count on people to buy their products from reputation.

 

[number1kyster]

@kinger touched on it, but the lack of decent suspension/chassis calibration has always been a weekness for the big Y. All three of the other OEMs do a much better job of delivering a product off the showroom floor that performs well for the average person without a bunch of fiddling by the end user. If the majority of the 4 stroke models had hit the snow dialled in well like the other manufacturers the reluctance to accept them as a truly viable option would have wained quite quickly. If there was ever a time for Yammy to get their #*$&@ together with the ride/handling side of things it was at the point of no return going all in on 4 strokes only. If you spent the time and a little money updating some hardware and doing some adjusting all of these sleds can perform as well as comparable segment sleds, but Joe average coming from another brand wants to just get on and ride like they always have. It’s really a shame because as a whole Yamaha has always built a superior product from a DQR standpoint, they’ve just never been able to deliver them performing as well as they could/should have out of the box.

You hit the nail on the head. My 2005 Vector was the worst handling sled I’ve ever ridden with the factory settings. That sled taught me how to set up a snowmobile. My Apex was better, but it still left a bit to be desired out of the box. The 2008 demo FX Nytro I rode was awful.

My buddy bought a new X package Etec in 09. I tried it out and it was eye opening.

I think the majority of riders would rather buy a new sled instead of taking the time to set one up.

The factory Yamaha 4 strokes were great if you liked riding on one ski through the corners.

 

[earthling]

I agree with that.

One of my good friends who I have snowmobiled with for 25 years is one of the guys that has switched over to Side x Sides. He was a diehard Yamaha guy too, still owns a supercharged Attak. He went with the X3 Can Am turbo. Whether it’s better or worse the CA and the RZR use a CVT drivetrain which as we know is like an automatic transmission. Yamaha continues to use the finger shift, their suspension gets dogged on that the geometry is off and apparently the 998T is not allowed because of some silly rule the industry voted on. Just like the sled industry Poo and BRP are leading the way. But we know Kawasaki and Honda also have Side x Sides but I don’t see them jumping out front either. I think the Japanese are just a different breed when it comes to marketing. They know they make reliable products and count on people to buy their products from reputation.

If you ever have an opportunity to walk the streets of Japan and sample their marketing, it is an unforgettable experience. About a cheeze-ball as you can get. It is better outside of Japan where their marketing is polished to a point which would have been okay about 30 years ago but it has never moved forward from that.

Yamaha 2023 YXZ1000R SS SE

Pure sport meets extreme adventure in the YXZ1000R SS EPS SE, combining a factory-installed WARN winch, Special Edition paint, colour-matched wheels and aggressive tread Yamaha-exclusive Maxxis Carnage tires with a high-revving, high-output inline-triple engine.

Can-Am MAVERICK X3

Where driving can really take you. Explore, ride, and roar off-road in our purpose-built-for-anything high-performance vehicle. It took us to the podium at Dakar 6 years in a row. Now it’s your turn to take the lead.

Yamaha tells you what it is, Can-Am tells you who you can be. Yamaha assumes you know who you are and what you want. Can-Am tempts you to be something you probably aren't. Yamaha is trying to sell to logic. Can-Am is selling to your emotions. Big difference.

 

[number1kyster]

Japanese manufacturers also don’t update product as often as other brands. They do little to tempt customers to trade for the latest and greatest.

I think the younger generations love to have the latest and greatest. Reliability is less important to them. It is not like it used to be when you bought a machine and kept it for years. BRP and Polaris are good at introducing new gadgets, accessories, shock packages, increasing power, and marketing the hell out of the changes.

 

[journeyman]

If you ever have an opportunity to walk the streets of Japan and sample their marketing, it is an unforgettable experience. About a cheeze-ball as you can get. It is better outside of Japan where their marketing is polished to a point which would have been okay about 30 years ago but it has never moved forward from that.

Yamaha 2023 YXZ1000R SS SE

Pure sport meets extreme adventure in the YXZ1000R SS EPS SE, combining a factory-installed WARN winch, Special Edition paint, colour-matched wheels and aggressive tread Yamaha-exclusive Maxxis Carnage tires with a high-revving, high-output inline-triple engine.

Can-Am MAVERICK X3

Where driving can really take you. Explore, ride, and roar off-road in our purpose-built-for-anything high-performance vehicle. It took us to the podium at Dakar 6 years in a row. Now it’s your turn to take the lead.

Yamaha tells you what it is, Can-Am tells you who you can be. Yamaha assumes you know who you are and what you want. Can-Am tempts you to be something you probably aren't. Yamaha is trying to sell to logic. Can-Am is selling to your emotions. Big difference.

Almost like politics in a way. Don’t get me wrong, not going down that road but I get your point.

 

[sailor joe]

BRP is a marketing company that just happens to sell snowmobiles!

BRP took over Evinrude, seems that didn't work out for them all that well. More than likely people who sled also go boating...I think Yamaha cleaned BRP's clock in that area.
I'm sure there will be plenty of parts for our sleds in the future. I have a BRP Etec outboard engine, they are out of business and I have no problem getting parts. KCYO

 

[earthling]

BRP took over Evinrude, seems that didn't work out for them all that well. More than likely people who sled also go boating...I think Yamaha cleaned BRP's clock in that area.
I'm sure there will be plenty of parts for our sleds in the future. I have a BRP Etec outboard engine, they are out of business and I have no problem getting parts. KCYO

A better example is personal watercraft where BRP is dominate. Innovation backed by good marketing.

 

[fxnytrortxkid]

A better example is personal watercraft where BRP is dominate. Innovation backed by good marketing.

Back again to Yamaha builds what you need and brp builds what you want, what you think you need/want. You will ride exactly the same and have more fun on yamaha being trustworthy but you see a kid who’s a pro rider doing cool #*$&@ your chubby butt will never do but you think. I could do that I need that. Yamaha builds them for avg chubby guy who needs something stable and good handling, smooth fast and reliable to have the most fun and enjoyment per dollar. That’s not the current crop of this instant gratification crowd. Hell look at snowmobilers, 10” lcd touch screen? Yep gotta have it and Yamaha sucks for not offering it, electronic self adjusting smart shocks yep gotta have that. Let’s take off the foot holds windshield and few other features they have had for 50 years and sell them at 50-100 add ons then sell them in diff colors so they feel they are customizing their sled not buying what should be included.

I was chatting with one the guys pretty high up with Yamaha sleds at bar one night when they released the viper. I said look at fb and follow that thinking, exclusivity. For example Take a nytro, race front end, titanium and carbon fiber chassis, titanium exhaust build it to be the baddest race sled you can make and drop 75lbs, hell carbon rails on suspension all ohlins high low comp an rebound adjustable shocks with the new exhaust and intake set up and new mapping you can get 155-160hp and lots of torque. Then sell this dumb sled for 25k (in 2014-2015 prices) but only make 500 of them. The desire for someone to have a very limited product and something so different will force them from logical thoughts to I’m getting it! His words to me is, but why not just make it snow check only and I can sell as many as we can in that time and make more. You lost the drive to mentally force people to jump on it and at 25k will be laughed out of the market…… well look what happened.