Yamaha RE-tooling for 2020

[hibshman25]

Yep doesn’t work for me or my buds we need dealer service and support. Lots of yammie riders don’t have time to wrench on sleds want the best tech out there turn the key gas and go. Park and do again next time without getting our hands dirty and willing to pay for expert service providers.

I think Yamaha is really going to go after quality and not quantity with the dealer network as well. There are dealers that are passionate about what the do and there are other dealers that are not. Trimming down the dealer network is really not a bad idea once you realize that most of the dealers being cut are likely the sub par ones that you wouldn't have service your equipment anyway. I have a dealer 30 minutes from me, but i choose to drive 1.5 hours to another dealer and I'm sure there are many others that do the same thing where they live.

 

[whitedust1]

I think Yamaha is really going to go after quality and not quantity with the dealer network as well. There are dealers that are passionate about what the do and there are other dealers that are not. Trimming down the dealer network is really not a bad idea once you realize that most of the dealers being cut are likely the sub par ones that you wouldn't have service your equipment anyway. I have a dealer 30 minutes from me, but i choose to drive 1.5 hours to another dealer and I'm sure there are many others that do the same thing where they live.

Yep I don’t have a problem with Yamaha thinning dealers to the best and most productive dealers and I have been also driving an hour to the best dealer for me that I trust. Currently there is way too many Yamaha and AC dealers selling the same product too close together for it to be profitable and not good for them or the market. I’m fine with a pure Yamaha 2020 sled only represented by the best Yamaha dealers. It does seem like the AC / Yamaha sled building partnership is about to end. Yamaha factory reps stated many times to me at events that the OEM agreement was 5 years and done and who knows if they were truthful at the time? But currently overstocks ,lack of new products and low snow winters has changed the landscape for renewal of a new agreement.

 

[74Nitro]

Yep I don’t have a problem with Yamaha thinning dealers to the best and most productive dealers and I have been also driving an hour to the best dealer for me that I trust. Currently there is way too many Yamaha and AC dealers selling the same product too close together for it to be profitable and not good for them or the market. I’m fine with a pure Yamaha 2020 sled only represented by the best Yamaha dealers. It does seem like the AC / Yamaha sled building partnership is about to end. Yamaha factory reps stated many times to me at events that the OEM agreement was 5 years and done and who knows if they were truthful at the time? But currently overstocks ,lack of new products and low snow winters has changed the landscape for renewal of a new agreement.

The agreement has worked well, why do you think it will end?
Vipers and Winders are great sleds, owner love them.
I see these two companies building a sled from the ground up, more combined than ever and I can't wait.

 

[whitedust1]

The Agreement was a good thing 5 years ago but the market has changed with overstocks thruout the industry for all OEMs. The overstocks of same model rebranded sleds has over saturated the amount of buyers that want a Viper ,Sidewinder ,7000 or Thundercat. If the OEM Agreement produced a unique sled for Yamaha and AC that appealed to the mass consumer the inventory reduction would not be necessary. I had great hopes for a leading edge new sled with eps but it just didn’t happen. Then Textron bought AC and I’m sure they pushed Yamaha for a big order that Yamaha could not buy or sell. The current AC / Yamaha line up is very old stuff while both doo and poo have moved on with new products. I don’t see a fat market for same old same old AC/Yamaha rebranded sleds that market is saturated already been tapped and time for both companies to go it alone.

 

[Motorhead]

Times are changing, business is fast and nothing is constant anymore!

Last year my dealer talked about Cat having a hard time financially. He sells Yamaha and Polaris. He was correct, they got bought by Textron.

This year same guy says Yamaha is having financial strains, but Polaris has and is spending a lot! They (Polaris sponsored an ATV thing this past fall in Berlin NH, wow they spent a bunch, I heard over $250,000 just on this one event in Jericho Park/Berlin NH. From locals. I was working in that area for months during this fest.

So we shall see what 2020 has to offer, if anything???

 

[74Nitro]

They're barely into it, five years isn't a long time.
What do you mean other manufacturers have moved on and Yamaha/Arctic Cat is old stuff?
The Axys chassis is just a slight variation of the Rush chassis along with engine tweaks that add a few horse every couple years.
Exact same can be said for Doo.
Cats chassis was completely new in 2012.
Yamaha's Turbo triple is leaps and bounds ahead in power and just came out last year.
Last year, my dealer had talked to Chris Reid, and was told not to expect alot in 2019, 2020 will be a much bigger year. He also heard well before the release date of the 19's that the 129 would be gone. So far, so good.

 

[whitedust1]

They're barely into it, five years isn't a long time.
What do you mean other manufacturers have moved on and Yamaha/Arctic Cat is old stuff?
The Axys chassis is just a slight variation of the Rush chassis along with engine tweaks that add a few horse every couple years.
Exact same can be said for Doo.
Cats chassis was completely new in 2012.
Yamaha's Turbo triple is leaps and bounds ahead in power and just came out last year.
Last year, my dealer had talked to Chris Reid, and was told not to expect alot in 2019, 2020 will be a much bigger year. He also heard well before the release date of the 19's that the 129 would be gone. So far, so good.

You like the turbo and the pro cross and that’s ok with me but I wanted a new lighter platform and a new NA 150 ish hp sled and engine with eps. It didn’t happen in the 5 year term of the OEM Agreement. That’s fact. I do think the duplicate sled market has been tapped did ok for awhile but it’s over and slow growth at its best. I also think both Yamaha and Textron see it the same way and are ready to separate. Time after time there are TY posts wanting a pure Yamaha NA 150ish hp new platform sled. If the market wanted endless Vipers and Sidewinders the units were and are available but the facts show those units are NOT selling even at huge discounts. You don’t need to agree with my opinion think whatever you desire but facts state dual branded sled market has hit a brick wall according to both Yamaha and Textron thus the inventory reduction program for 2019. I highly doubt Yamaha and Textron will make the same mistake again with duplicate sleds.

 

[74Nitro]

You like the turbo and the pro cross and that’s ok with me but I wanted a new lighter platform and a new NA 150 ish hp sled and engine with eps. It didn’t happen in the 5 year term of the OEM Agreement. That’s fact. I do think the duplicate sled market has been tapped did ok for awhile but it’s over and slow growth at its best. I also think both Yamaha and Textron see it the same way and are ready to separate. Time after time there are TY posts wanting a pure Yamaha NA 150ish hp new platform sled. If the market wanted endless Vipers and Sidewinders the units were and are available but the facts show those units are NOT selling even at huge discounts. You don’t need to agree with my opinion think whatever you desire but facts state dual branded sled market has hit a brick wall according to both Yamaha and Textron thus the inventory reduction program for 2019. I highly doubt Yamaha and Textron will make the same mistake again with duplicate sleds.

I also would like to see a NA version, power steering in new chassis, however it would have to be 170hp to sell against Doo and Pol, or otherwise it would be a flop.
Other manufacturers are facing problems with much inventory left over. Yet they keep getting more pushed on them. My local Polaris dealer said enough four years ago, and now he has no brands, just general service in the winter. Just this week another Polaris dealer in London Ontario said enough also as Polaris wanted him to sell many more units than he did the previous year. So there is 2 Polaris dealers gone within 1 hour from where I live.
I tend to think of this from a business point of view, that is why it makes sense to me in a shrinking sled market for Yamaha and Textron to share technology, engineering, product design and assembly lines.

 

[whitedust1]

I also would like to see a NA version, power steering in new chassis, however it would have to be 170hp to sell against Doo and Pol, or otherwise it would be a flop.
Other manufacturers are facing problems with much inventory left over. Yet they keep getting more pushed on them. My local Polaris dealer said enough four years ago, and now he has no brands, just general service in the winter. Just this week another Polaris dealer in London Ontario said enough also as Polaris wanted him to sell many more units than he did the previous year. So there is 2 Polaris dealers gone within 1 hour from where I live.
I tend to think of this from a business point of view, that is why it makes sense to me in a shrinking sled market for Yamaha and Textron to share technology, engineering, product design and assembly lines.

I was in the industrial OEM biz for 35 years so yes Agreements should evolve into leading edge products as each company partners to engineer a very creative and robust products to bring their best integrations to market. I had high hopes for this strategic relationship but it just did not bloom. Yamaha brought a new turbo engine to market but AC did very little with their chassis technology and I thought eps would be integrated as well at least in the SW. I test rode a SW and liked everything about it except the lack of eps and I don’t need 204 hp. 170 hp NA would be fine for me too in a new lighter platform but 155 ish is fine if engine cost is an issue. I haven’t mentioned poo just don’t care for 2s sleds but give them credit for gaining market share with the Indy and Evo series. Neither is of interest to me but poo is building the correct sleds for the 2s market. I also give credit to doo for the Ace turbo and their Gen 4 chassis but like I said I’m a NA user if possible. Who knows what will happen in 2020 but both Textron and Yamaha knows what doesn’t sell. Could they kickass with a new product? Heck yes but falling back to dual branded duplicate products is not the future. They both need to do much better than that to gain market share and continue working together and I believe both companies know the score and need to evolve or separate.

 

[WillowAce]

Agreements should evolve into leading edge products

Not sure that I agree with this. Sometimes agreements are more about needing a crutch and some time to rebuild. That is kind of like saying that if the fat kid becomes friends with the super athlete they either run a marathon soon or they failed. Yamaha had the best 4s in the market in the 1049 and just released a beast in the Winder. Cat has brought two very good 2s to the market since the agreement. This year we see an all new mono-rail mountain sled and electronic ride control. AC put their marbles in the mountain game while Yamaha cut 129s and most long tracks from its lineup. Maybe, just maybe, these two have a plan that doesn't include wither closing.

 

[74Nitro]

I think those in charge

I was in the industrial OEM biz for 35 years so yes Agreements should evolve into leading edge products as each company partners to engineer a very creative and robust products to bring their best integrations to market. I had high hopes for this strategic relationship but it just did not bloom. Yamaha brought a new turbo engine to market but AC did very little with their chassis technology and I thought eps would be integrated as well at least in the SW. I test rode a SW and liked everything about it except the lack of eps and I don’t need 204 hp. 170 hp NA would be fine for me too in a new lighter platform but 155 ish is fine if engine cost is an issue. I haven’t mentioned poo just don’t care for 2s sleds but give them credit for gaining market share with the Indy and Evo series. Neither is of interest to me but poo is building the correct sleds for the 2s market. I also give credit to doo for the Ace turbo and their Gen 4 chassis but like I said I’m a NA user if possible. Who knows what will happen in 2020 but both Textron and Yamaha knows what doesn’t sell. Could they kickass with a new product? Heck yes but falling back to dual branded duplicate products is not the future. They both need to do much better than that to gain market share and continue working together and I believe both companies know the score and need to evolve or separate.

I think that those in charge of product development at Cat and Yamaha need as much passion as you and I have for sleds. Thanks for the debate, we'll have to wait a while to see what happens for sure.
Cheers

 

[74Nitro]

I think those in charge

I think that those in charge of product development at Cat and Yamaha need as much passion as you and I have for sleds. Thanks for the debate, we'll have to wait a while to see what happens for sure.
Cheers

I was in the industrial OEM biz for 35 years so yes Agreements should evolve into leading edge products as each company partners to engineer a very creative and robust products to bring their best integrations to market. I had high hopes for this strategic relationship but it just did not bloom. Yamaha brought a new turbo engine to market but AC did very little with their chassis technology and I thought eps would be integrated as well at least in the SW. I test rode a SW and liked everything about it except the lack of eps and I don’t need 204 hp. 170 hp NA would be fine for me too in a new lighter platform but 155 ish is fine if engine cost is an issue. I haven’t mentioned poo just don’t care for 2s sleds but give them credit for gaining market share with the Indy and Evo series. Neither is of interest to me but poo is building the correct sleds for the 2s market. I also give credit to doo for the Ace turbo and their Gen 4 chassis but like I said I’m a NA user if possible. Who knows what will happen in 2020 but both Textron and Yamaha knows what doesn’t sell. Could they kickass with a new product? Heck yes but falling back to dual branded duplicate products is not the future. They both need to do much better than that to gain market share and continue working together and I believe both companies know the score and need to evolve or separate.

Forgot to add one thing. I recently saw that Textron chose the Yamaha triple to power the new Cat sxs, with a turbo version soon to follow.

 

[yammitrip1]

Neither are closing. They are both going to release new products but by themselves.

 

[whitedust1]

Not sure that I agree with this. Sometimes agreements are more about needing a crutch and some time to rebuild. That is kind of like saying that if the fat kid becomes friends with the super athlete they either run a marathon soon or they failed. Yamaha had the best 4s in the market in the 1049 and just released a beast in the Winder. Cat has brought two very good 2s to the market since the agreement. This year we see an all new mono-rail mountain sled and electronic ride control. AC put their marbles in the mountain game while Yamaha cut 129s and most long tracks from its lineup. Maybe, just maybe, these two have a plan that doesn't include wither closing.

The plan is simple with OEMs they are always trying to advance product sales and increase revenue so it is best to increase sales to your OEM partner as they are you most interested customer. Nothing is given engineering and technical expertise is sold to the partner at prevailing rates that’s how it always works with OEMs. Sometimes product development can be mutually shared other times it makes no sense at all to be involved with certain R and D projects and you hire out your resources because it is money in your pocket. It looks to me that Yamaha may have sold some engineering resources in mono suspensions to Textron and may have also been hired to refine 2s engine design as well. Seems logical to me but there is no way to know.

 

[stevewithOCD]

Yamaha says in the new SNOGOER mag that they will have a completely different lineup for 2020.
They also ADDED engineers.
It looks like they are sticking around...