Yamaha's Involvement With The Procross Chassis

[DeepFrz]

After putting a lot of thought into this, I'm starting to think that Yamaha helped develop this chassis.

1. The higher ups at Yamaha keep telling us this sled has been in development for years.
2. There were heavy rumors of a new chassis being released by Yamaha in 2011 and 2012.
3. The Nytro motor seems to fit in this chassis like a glove without many modifications.
4. This chassis looks like nothing Arctic Cat would ever create. I mean, has anyone ever seen the Twin Spar chassis?!?! AC is not this creative. It seems to be a more "out there" design like the Nytro and Phazer chassis.
5. The same year a new chassis was rumored to be released by Yamaha, Arctic Cat release the Procross sleds. Maybe a side by side release was originally planned.
6. Many of us know that it's not like Yamaha to borrow parts that their competitors created.

So if Yamaha did help create this chassis, why did they let AC release it before them?

1. To let AC test the water. If this sled was a flop, it's AC that looks like the idiot.
2. To ensure there were no problems with the chassis.
3. nickleuci made a great point in another thread, with the BRP lawsuit against AC, maybe Yamaha wanted to lay low for a few seasons.


Open for discussion, I just thought I'd share what's been running through my head over the past couple of days.

 

[AKrider]

Now that the newness and novelty of the Viper has worn off a little bit for me, I find I'm kind of fixated on the the height of the motor in the chassis. I don't believe Yamaha was involved with the procross chassis until recently and I don't think the motor fits into it as good as it should. One ride would tell me everything I need to know. But because I feel like I got burned on the '08 Nytro, I take everything Yamaha has to say with a grain of salt.

I still like the concept, I like what I see and am still very interested in the Viper. But, now that others are really starting to analyze the chassis and bring things up, I'm taking a more critical eye to the chassis and the whole arrangement. I do have a lot more confidence in the Viper being a good performing sled than I would if it were a 100% pure Yamaha design. This is simply because the last time they released a brand new chassis that had as good of ride and handling qualities as the other OEM's was in '97 with the V-max trailing arm chassis. That was 16 fricking years ago!

I sure hope they offer some demo rides here in Alaska!

 

[Sportsterdanne]

Im thinking the same as AK when it comes to the Engine placement. i doesnt look right for that chassi i still belive that it humiliates a stock Nytro but i think it could be even better.
And why do they keep the radiator, there should be room to route cooling on the left side to some tunnel coolers in the back.
I wonder how the EFI with the O2 sensor runs vs. a stock nytro.

 

[Bluebullet]

I agree with some that say this is what most asked for in a new sled, Chassis wise, lighter and presumed faster based on weight loss. Sled looks great I agree.

I don't think Yamaha was that involved with this chassis I just don't see Yamaha's engineers stamp on it, Time will tell.
I have a buddy that has the 2012 F1100 snow pro and had is tunnel all replaced by cat after 1500 miles. ( under recall due to buckling )

AK, I like my Mono and I think it rides as well as the others. I understand it wasn't a hole new chassis in the apex but once it is tuned mine flat out works!
I feel this is an experament with yamaha and cat like the kids sled. I think we will get a new sled in the future, Next year?
My 2 cents for what it's worh

 

[RSV]

4. This chassis looks like nothing Arctic Cat would ever create. I mean, has anyone ever seen the Twin Spar chassis?!?! AC is not this creative. It seems to be a more "out there" design like the Nytro and Phazer chassis.

It's just a more "civil" version of their old racer-chassis. I can't see any evidence of a Yamaha influence anywhere on the "SRV"-chassis. They even admitted to having A-C making the exhaust and injection for it. It's the end of an era, no doubt about it...

 

[09nytro]

RSV.. ...no way

 

[towerrigger]

After putting a lot of thought into this, I'm starting to think that Yamaha helped develop this chassis.

1. The higher ups at Yamaha keep telling us this sled has been in development for years.
2. There were heavy rumors of a new chassis being released by Yamaha in 2011 and 2012.
3. The Nytro motor seems to fit in this chassis like a glove without many modifications.
4. This chassis looks like nothing Arctic Cat would ever create. I mean, has anyone ever seen the Twin Spar chassis?!?! AC is not this creative. It seems to be a more "out there" design like the Nytro and Phazer chassis.
5. The same year a new chassis was rumored to be released by Yamaha, Arctic Cat release the Procross sleds. Maybe a side by side release was originally planned.
6. Many of us know that it's not like Yamaha to borrow parts that their competitors created.

So if Yamaha did help create this chassis, why did they let AC release it before them?

1. To let AC test the water. If this sled was a flop, it's AC that looks like the idiot.
2. To ensure there were no problems with the chassis.
3. nickleuci made a great point in another thread, with the BRP lawsuit against AC, maybe Yamaha wanted to lay low for a few seasons.


Open for discussion, I just thought I'd share what's been running through my head over the past couple of days.

3. The Nytro motor seems to fit in this chassis like a glove without many modifications. If you compare the two, a viper and a 1100, the 1100 looks to fit in there way better. The nytro engine looks like it was just slapped in there. Did you see the space underneath the engine? You could store your lunch under there. I think they couldn't drop the engine any further because of the rear exiting exhaust cutting into the tunnel space. The 1100 engine just fits in there better. Granted I haven't seen one of these vipers up close but this is what I gather from the photos released.

4. This chassis looks like nothing Arctic Cat would ever create. I mean, has anyone ever seen the Twin Spar chassis?!?! AC is not this creative. It seems to be a more "out there" design like the Nytro and Phazer chassis. Oh trust me this is a cat chassis. I own one. Just wait till the a-arms start leaking rusty water all over those nice blue panels and you find spare bolts and nuts in the belly pan.

Take a look at the Yamaha website. The Vipers in the gallery are 1100 cats with Yamaha panels on them. You can see the 1100 exhaust joint in the side vent. You would think if they had been working on this setup for a couple years they would of had a Viper with its nytro engine ready for a photoshoot.

 

[greenthumb]

In one of the Yamaha Viper videos, the mentions riding one last season. I don't know how long it takes to put together a working prototype, but I would think that a joint venture would have at least been in discussion by when the PC was released.

Another issue that seems to be ignored is that fact that the earthquake in Japan had a devastating impact on industry there. A significant portion of their manufacturing plants were shut down for months or longer. This could have influenced the decision to have things assembled in the USA.

 

[Sportsterdanne]

And why do they claim its the most advanced chassi out there ? In my opinion the pro ride is more advanced with the casting. The bonding and the carbon fiber.

 

[Ak Yammy]

Now that the newness and novelty of the Viper has worn off a little bit for me, I find I'm kind of fixated on the the height of the motor in the chassis. I don't believe Yamaha was involved with the procross chassis until recently and I don't think the motor fits into it as good as it should. One ride would tell me everything I need to know. But because I feel like I got burned on the '08 Nytro, I take everything Yamaha has to say with a grain of salt.

I still like the concept, I like what I see and am still very interested in the Viper. But, now that others are really starting to analyze the chassis and bring things up, I'm taking a more critical eye to the chassis and the whole arrangement. I do have a lot more confidence in the Viper being a good performing sled than I would if it were a 100% pure Yamaha design. This is simply because the last time they released a brand new chassis that had as good of ride and handling qualities as the other OEM's was in '97 with the V-max trailing arm chassis. That was 16 fricking years ago!

I sure hope they offer some demo rides here in Alaska!

I am liking it too akrider but am definitely not pre-ordering one the same as I would never pre order any brand untill it get's on the snow for a while. Chaincase and jackshaft (sounds like it's cat also) is the big ??? for me.

May have to go to Arctic Man to ride it as I haven't been there in many years but heard they do lots of demo's for all brands. I can PM you if our dealer here (the good one, other one won't let you ride anything anyway) gets one but not sure if you want to drive all the way to the 'banks for a test ride.

 

[ScottyR]

I dont think Yamaha had anything to do with the development of the ProCross. If they did, it woudnt have had so many issues.

I think we are all just in denial that Yamaha is using a Cat chassis and couldnt come up with anything better on their own.

 

[cannondale27]

I agree.No way Yamaha was involved in that chassis design.Only involvement they had with cat then was the 120.Nobody at Yamaha lied when saying they were involved with cat.But nobody said they were involved with cat back then on the ProCross.Decieving?Possibly.

Speaking of Twinspar chassis anyone ever look at it and RX1 or Apex?Suprised Yamaha let them use that design without suing like Doo did to AC for ProCross.

 

[journeyman]

I have been around alot of new releases with Yamaha, went to test rides of new models. This year seems different than most, like Yamaha was a little un-prepared. Things aren't panned out yet like timing curves etc. Dates and places for test ride times aren't etched out completely yet. Wet paint on sleds only hours before the showing in Mpls. So unlike Yamaha.

Here is what I know.

Cat got caught in a bind when the Suzuki auto division took down the whole company. Suzuki told Cat they could no longer supply motors. They had to buy back all the stock Suzuki had in the company and all the left over motors. Even though Cat was working on building their own much like Polaris they were not ready yet and they contacted Yamaha to see if they could supply some motors in a deal. Much like when Yamaha was sharing tech with Mercury in the outboard world and let them have some of their 4 cycle motors for a few years and shared ideas. So Yamaha in turn said yes only if they could have a share in the new ProCross chassis.

So Yamaha sold 5500 Nytro motors to Cat and Yamaha gets back X amount of ProCross chassis built to their specs. Yamaha has been in their plant for about 9 months watching over the production of these sleds and has supplied some materials such as side panel material ,seat cover material, shafts, bearings,bolts.......etc.. that meets their standards.

 

[Yammerhead]

I have been around alot of new releases with Yamaha, went to test rides of new models. This year seems different than most, like Yamaha was a little un-prepared. Things aren't panned out yet like timing curves etc. Dates and places for test ride times aren't etched out completely yet. Wet paint on sleds only hours before the showing in Mpls. So unlike Yamaha.

Here is what I know.

Cat got caught in a bind when the Suzuki auto division took down the whole company. Suzuki told Cat they could no longer supply motors. They had to buy back all the stock Suzuki had in the company and all the left over motors. Even though Cat was working on building their own much like Polaris they were not ready yet and they contacted Yamaha to see if they could supply some motors in a deal. Much like when Yamaha was sharing tech with Mercury in the outboard world and let them have some of their 4 cycle motors for a few years and shared ideas. So Yamaha in turn said yes only if they could have a share in the new ProCross chassis.

So Yamaha sold 5500 Nytro motors to Cat and Yamaha gets back X amount of ProCross chassis built to their specs. Yamaha has been in their plant for about 9 months watching over the production of these sleds and has supllied some materials such as side panel material ,seat cover material, shafts, bearings,bolts.......etc.. that meets their standards.

That sounds plausible and would leave one to think that Yamaha motors in Cats is only a stop gap measure until Cat's in house motor program matures. I wonder how long 5500 will last? A years supply or two or??

It will be interesting to see if there are subtle differences between the AC and Yam sleds as far as materials go.

 

[AKrider]

Ak Yammy,
That would be great if you let me know if and when they offer demo rides! I'm hoping they will offer something at Big Lake in the Valley. That's closer than Fairbanks but still an 8hr round trip drive for me though.But, one day of driving will definitely be worth it over a season of regret if for some reason the Viper doesn't live up to expectations.

Still, I'm very confident the Viper will be amazing in the ride and handling dept. The proclimb sleds I rode were really good. It didn't take a ton of effort to throw a big, turbo 1100 162" onto its side in powder snow and carve.

I just can't shake my '08 Nytro experience. I had all the confidence in the world that it was going to be amazing and snow checked one without first doing a demo ride. Yeah. Don't want an experience like that again.