Rockmeister
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- 2007 Attak - LOVE my sled!!!
The "Fix that Doesn't"
Posted this in another thread & thought it was worth posting here for everyone.
A few facts about the grips may be in order here.
The grips are NOT the problem on the sleds.
Your factory grips work perfectly fine and actually have a very low failure rate.
The problem is that the grips never (or rarely) get enough power to do their job. (Warm your hands.)
The real problem is in the ECU and how it delivers power to the grips.
A little background...
Any good troubleshooter knows there is a big difference between Symptoms & Causes of problems, and to be a good troubleshooter you must be able to separate the Symptoms from the Causes and must be able to think through the connections between them.
(Deductive reasoning.)
The symptoms indicate what the actual cause may be, but are rarely the cause of the problem.
For example: If your headlights don't work due to a dead battery, replacing the headlight bulbs because the headlights "don't work" will not fix the cause, you are simply trying to "fix" a symptom which never(or rarely) works and is very expensive way to try to fix things.
(Would you be happy paying your car mechanic to work on your car with the "fix the symptom" line of thinking?)
So replacing your grips to "fix" the heat problem, is like replacing the front bumper on your sled to "fix" your blown drive belt.
There is no connection, wastes your money, and it doesn't make sense.
The replacement elements & grips do nothing to fix the problem, because the grips are NOT the problem.
(Actually, they will increase the heat output slightly, 3% at idle. You cannot & will not feel this as a difference in heat output.)
The replacement grips "fix" are an attempt to fix a symptom.
The "fix" will get warmer IF you wire the Low & High settings together, however...
They won't last long.
Guys on here can tell you that they will last about a month or two in use wired improperly.
They are not designed to be wired that way & you risk overloading your stator wiring them that way.
(The factory recommends properly wiring them to High.)
FYI RSI makes some great products, including their grips and elements, if you NEED them as replacements for a failed element, they are a great choice (Just replace in pairs for even heating.)
They have to design products that take some serious abuse from an engineering standpoint and they do this quite admirably.
This is NOT an RSI or grip issue, it is a power issue.
Why this is being touted as a way to "fix" the grips, I have no idea.
My guess is (and it is ONLY a guess), is that they felt they HAD to offer SOMETHING/ANYTHING as a "fix".
(And the fact that they are trying "something" isn't all bad either, just should effective, and make people happy rather than madder.)
Posted this in another thread & thought it was worth posting here for everyone.
A few facts about the grips may be in order here.
The grips are NOT the problem on the sleds.
Your factory grips work perfectly fine and actually have a very low failure rate.
The problem is that the grips never (or rarely) get enough power to do their job. (Warm your hands.)
The real problem is in the ECU and how it delivers power to the grips.
A little background...
Any good troubleshooter knows there is a big difference between Symptoms & Causes of problems, and to be a good troubleshooter you must be able to separate the Symptoms from the Causes and must be able to think through the connections between them.
(Deductive reasoning.)
The symptoms indicate what the actual cause may be, but are rarely the cause of the problem.
For example: If your headlights don't work due to a dead battery, replacing the headlight bulbs because the headlights "don't work" will not fix the cause, you are simply trying to "fix" a symptom which never(or rarely) works and is very expensive way to try to fix things.
(Would you be happy paying your car mechanic to work on your car with the "fix the symptom" line of thinking?)
So replacing your grips to "fix" the heat problem, is like replacing the front bumper on your sled to "fix" your blown drive belt.
There is no connection, wastes your money, and it doesn't make sense.
The replacement elements & grips do nothing to fix the problem, because the grips are NOT the problem.
(Actually, they will increase the heat output slightly, 3% at idle. You cannot & will not feel this as a difference in heat output.)
The replacement grips "fix" are an attempt to fix a symptom.
The "fix" will get warmer IF you wire the Low & High settings together, however...
They won't last long.
Guys on here can tell you that they will last about a month or two in use wired improperly.
They are not designed to be wired that way & you risk overloading your stator wiring them that way.
(The factory recommends properly wiring them to High.)
FYI RSI makes some great products, including their grips and elements, if you NEED them as replacements for a failed element, they are a great choice (Just replace in pairs for even heating.)
They have to design products that take some serious abuse from an engineering standpoint and they do this quite admirably.
This is NOT an RSI or grip issue, it is a power issue.
Why this is being touted as a way to "fix" the grips, I have no idea.
My guess is (and it is ONLY a guess), is that they felt they HAD to offer SOMETHING/ANYTHING as a "fix".
(And the fact that they are trying "something" isn't all bad either, just should effective, and make people happy rather than madder.)
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
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- 2007 Attak - LOVE my sled!!!
Recently a Dealer and the factory reps installed the new "fix" and did some real world measureable testing.
Here is what they found:
Hey RockMeister,
Per our phone conversation. We tested a 2008 Apex (stock warmers), 2009 Apex (Yamaha improvement kit), 2008 Apex (Yamaheater), and a 2010 Vector Gt. The three Apex's were all tested at 3000 RPM's. The Vector was only at idle, it is a brand new sled and we didn't want to incorrectly break the motor in. Of course each sled has a (sweet spot) on the grips that made the most warmth. We used a digital laser parometer to find the spot.
2008 Apex with stock warmers 93 degrees
2009 Apex with Yamaha improvement kit 101 degrees and very marginal extra warmth at idle.
2010 Vector at idle 111 degrees, new Vector warmers work very well
2008 Apex with Yamaheater 125 degrees and very noticeable extra warmth at all throttle settings.
Note from Rock: Most of the Vectors were already pretty good & they kept them good and possibly even improved them a bit.
That is a very GOOD thing!
Here is what they found:
Hey RockMeister,
Per our phone conversation. We tested a 2008 Apex (stock warmers), 2009 Apex (Yamaha improvement kit), 2008 Apex (Yamaheater), and a 2010 Vector Gt. The three Apex's were all tested at 3000 RPM's. The Vector was only at idle, it is a brand new sled and we didn't want to incorrectly break the motor in. Of course each sled has a (sweet spot) on the grips that made the most warmth. We used a digital laser parometer to find the spot.
2008 Apex with stock warmers 93 degrees
2009 Apex with Yamaha improvement kit 101 degrees and very marginal extra warmth at idle.
2010 Vector at idle 111 degrees, new Vector warmers work very well
2008 Apex with Yamaheater 125 degrees and very noticeable extra warmth at all throttle settings.
Note from Rock: Most of the Vectors were already pretty good & they kept them good and possibly even improved them a bit.
That is a very GOOD thing!
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
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- 2007 Attak - LOVE my sled!!!
So why explain all this and fill you in on what is really going on?
Because I would much rather you have Warm hands and the actual problem fixed, than you be pissed and buy a different sled, or stay unhappy with this one, just because of the grips.
My main goal from the beginning was and is to fix the problem.
If money is an issue for you, there is no reason to suffer and throw your money away on a "fix" that isn't a fix.
If you are willing to go as far as to cut up your grips, wiring, heater elements, etc with little to no gain, simply buy the basic kit & have something that fixes the problem, rather than trying to fix the symptom.
The basic hardwired kit is easy to wire and costs $125 for TY VIP members.
(If your willing to cut up all kinds of things on your sled to install a "fix that doesn't", simply hardwiring one in that does, should be extremely simple for you, and alot less work.)
Not much more for something that actually works and will keep working.
Check with me, off & on I have fully functioning factory seconds that I sell at a reduced rate, at about the same cost as the "fix that doesn't".
It is pointless to suffer through cold hands anymore.
Hope this helps!
Rockmeister
Because I would much rather you have Warm hands and the actual problem fixed, than you be pissed and buy a different sled, or stay unhappy with this one, just because of the grips.
My main goal from the beginning was and is to fix the problem.
If money is an issue for you, there is no reason to suffer and throw your money away on a "fix" that isn't a fix.
If you are willing to go as far as to cut up your grips, wiring, heater elements, etc with little to no gain, simply buy the basic kit & have something that fixes the problem, rather than trying to fix the symptom.
The basic hardwired kit is easy to wire and costs $125 for TY VIP members.
(If your willing to cut up all kinds of things on your sled to install a "fix that doesn't", simply hardwiring one in that does, should be extremely simple for you, and alot less work.)
Not much more for something that actually works and will keep working.
Check with me, off & on I have fully functioning factory seconds that I sell at a reduced rate, at about the same cost as the "fix that doesn't".
It is pointless to suffer through cold hands anymore.
Hope this helps!
Rockmeister
Brander
Extreme
Just put in my order for the YamaHeater. Looking foward to warm hands this winter finally and one step closer to having the perfect sled.
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
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Brander said:
Have you taken care of!
You will like having Warm Hands on command!
Kinda like all grips should be...
Well... exactly like all grips should be!
Rockmeister
Well I installed Rocks controller over the weekend. Easy install, had some questions for Rock, within half and hour he had replied to my emails. Not to mention he called me personally on Sunday(From the Novi show) Hands down the best customer support I have ever received from any one person, period. I installed two kits on two XTX's. Both kits came plug and play, awesome. I bought them last year and never got around to installing them. Glad I did, within a minute the grips are toasty warm. Told Rock I'm going to have to start riding with out gloves they work so well. Had a bit of a problem with the old style crimp clip on the blue wire. It didn't contact the wire very well. So I just cut them out and replaced it with the female end connector. All is good. If your hesitant in this kit, don't be. Its worth the time and money.
Thanks Rock, for making this kit. Its great.
Take care
Allan
Thanks Rock, for making this kit. Its great.
Take care
Allan
dirkdiggler
Suspended
Installed the heater on my Nytro and on the Wife's Vector ltx GT. We were loading the sled up after the install and the Nytro was so hot I had to shut the Warmers off. They never got hot before!!!!!
thanks Rock!!!!
thanks Rock!!!!
had a problem contacted rock he spent at least an houre and half on the phone helping me troubleshoot something that wound out to be my fault had two connectos crossed, i wish i could stop but it feels so good when i do. thanks rock i appreciated youre help. btw her's a pic of the wires properly connected
but it feels so good when i do. thanks rock i appreciated youre help. btw her's a pic of the wires properly connected
charger0926
Pro
rock
i just hooked up my kit and everything went o.k. i think, but i dont have any heat to my left warmer what did i do wrong?
2007 attak
i just hooked up my kit and everything went o.k. i think, but i dont have any heat to my left warmer what did i do wrong?
2007 attak
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
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Will call you in a few & get you taken care of!
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
- Joined
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- 2007 Attak - LOVE my sled!!!
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
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- www.yamaheater.com
- Country
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- Snowmobile
- 2007 Attak - LOVE my sled!!!
Plug & Go Play Connections & Installation.
Left & Right in the above pic and directions below, mean while you are sitting on the sled.
To install the Plug & Play Kits on most models you simply need to locate the following 3 connectors on your sled:
Brake Connector (Has Blue/Red & Green wires to it)
Left Grip Connector (Has Yellow/Red & Black wires to it)
Right Grip Connector (Has Yellow/Red & Black wires to it)
Unplug Brake connector & Plug Yamaheater Connectors with Blue & Green wires into open Brake Connectors.
Unplug Left side grip connector & Plug Connector from Yamaheater with Yellow & Black Wires into connector with Yellow/Red & Black from harness.
Plug Left side grip connector into shorter connector from Yamaheater. (with Orange & Black wires)
Unplug right side grip connector & plug grip into longer Yamaheater connector. (with Orange & Black wires)
You will not use the harness connector with Yellow/Red & Black wires on the Right side.
Connect Black wire with Ring Terminal to ground bolt.
On many models, even your power is already connected with these simple plug-ins!
If there is a mini-blade Blue 15A fuse included in your package, replace the SIG fuse on your sled with the 15A fuse.
Put the old fuse in a spare slot in your fusebox.
On earlier models, connect red wire with fuseholder to +12 source as shown in individual instructions.
IF you have a SLEDSTART Remote Start, connect the Purple Wire to the SLEDSTART module Purple wire to give you Autowarm Hands!
If you do not have a SLEDSTART, you will NOT use the purple wire.
It really IS that easy!
(As someone called it, Plug & Go Play!)
The YamaHeater is usually mounted on the Left side of your sled.
For exact location of suggested mounting location & connectors, go here and select basic install instructions for your model:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=67236
NOTE:
Many of the YamaHeater connections have evolved since this pic/post.
1) No Switch & no switch wires.
2) No Short unused wires.
3) No Blue wire.
4) No Remote Start Purple wire unless requested when ordered.
The general connection remains the same.
All of these evolved to make everything even more reliable & easier to install for you!
Added/Edited 2-2-17
Left & Right in the above pic and directions below, mean while you are sitting on the sled.
To install the Plug & Play Kits on most models you simply need to locate the following 3 connectors on your sled:
Brake Connector (Has Blue/Red & Green wires to it)
Left Grip Connector (Has Yellow/Red & Black wires to it)
Right Grip Connector (Has Yellow/Red & Black wires to it)
Unplug Brake connector & Plug Yamaheater Connectors with Blue & Green wires into open Brake Connectors.
Unplug Left side grip connector & Plug Connector from Yamaheater with Yellow & Black Wires into connector with Yellow/Red & Black from harness.
Plug Left side grip connector into shorter connector from Yamaheater. (with Orange & Black wires)
Unplug right side grip connector & plug grip into longer Yamaheater connector. (with Orange & Black wires)
You will not use the harness connector with Yellow/Red & Black wires on the Right side.
Connect Black wire with Ring Terminal to ground bolt.
On many models, even your power is already connected with these simple plug-ins!
If there is a mini-blade Blue 15A fuse included in your package, replace the SIG fuse on your sled with the 15A fuse.
Put the old fuse in a spare slot in your fusebox.
On earlier models, connect red wire with fuseholder to +12 source as shown in individual instructions.
IF you have a SLEDSTART Remote Start, connect the Purple Wire to the SLEDSTART module Purple wire to give you Autowarm Hands!
If you do not have a SLEDSTART, you will NOT use the purple wire.
It really IS that easy!
(As someone called it, Plug & Go Play!)
The YamaHeater is usually mounted on the Left side of your sled.
For exact location of suggested mounting location & connectors, go here and select basic install instructions for your model:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=67236
NOTE:
Many of the YamaHeater connections have evolved since this pic/post.
1) No Switch & no switch wires.
2) No Short unused wires.
3) No Blue wire.
4) No Remote Start Purple wire unless requested when ordered.
The general connection remains the same.
All of these evolved to make everything even more reliable & easier to install for you!
Added/Edited 2-2-17
Last edited:
Fusion
Expert
Rock, where's the power in that quick connect harness? I see the ground, but no specific "hot" power wire. Must get the power from one of the other connections, I'm curious which one.
Rockmeister
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We get power from the brake connector, simplifies connections & cleans up the installation a bit for everyone.
Rockmeister
TY Advertiser
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- 2007 Attak - LOVE my sled!!!
dirkdiggler said:
You are welcome!
Wait until it's really cold out & you aren't!
Rock
PS This is a good example: The factory grips are perfectly fine and work awesome with the right power applied to them.
