2020 Release

[cannondale27]

This is all fine but what happens if the four stroke market declines and the number of engines they sell goes down? Then what? They have nothing to back it up. That's why if they built a 2 stroke then atleast it would keep people with them and not turn them to other brands such as Arctic Cat unless Yamaha gets a percentage of every Cat 4 stroke sold but I bet that doesn't happen.

Honestly. They will sell more UTV’s and electric bikes. Yamaha will always be around.

 

[Deeppow16]

This is the very reason BRP and Yamaha decided to standardize on engines that are being used in more than one platform. The use of an engine could decline in any one platform, but they would not lose on their investment in the design of the engine.

Unlike all the money and resources used to design those 600 Ctec and 800 Ctec engines only to be used in sleds (a declining market) or Polaris and their new Patriot 850, only to be used in a snowmobile. How foolish does that business plan look. Why in this world would Yamaha go and develop one to do the same in a market that they are not leading in? And two stroke use in other markets are declining.

BRP on the other hand is building ACE engines being used in watercraft, their motorcycles (Spyder) and ATV/SXS. While Yamaha is doing exactly the same with the 1049 and 998 engines. As much as blue bloods want them to rock a new chassis and a new engine specific to snowmobiles, that's just poor business and it won't happen. Sometimes, not participating in a bad market means we will supply what we are good at to those that want to gamble. Knowing that they can build engines based on supply needed. But will never have to gamble on stock sitting in showrooms at the end of the season. They will sell what they produce each and every year. That's a good business model. It is still business at the end of the day

Yeah I get that. I guess I didn't think about the other vehicles that use the same engines. I guess I just really want Yamaha to be the leader in the sled market but unfortunately I think those days a long gone.

 

[Deeppow16]

Honestly. They will sell more UTV’s and electric bikes. Yamaha will always be around.

O yeah I know they aren't going anywhere I was more so talking about the sled market. I think all companies will sell more summer toys then winter toys regardless of who makes them.

 

[sk-rx1]

This is the very reason BRP and Yamaha decided to standardize on engines that are being used in more than one platform. The use of an engine could decline in any one platform, but they would not lose on their investment in the design of the engine.

Unlike all the money and resources used to design those 600 Ctec and 800 Ctec engines only to be used in sleds (a declining market) or Polaris and their new Patriot 850, only to be used in a snowmobile. How foolish does that business plan look. Why in this world would Yamaha go and develop one to do the same in a market that they are not leading in? And two stroke use in other markets are declining.

BRP on the other hand is building ACE engines being used in watercraft, their motorcycles (Spyder) and ATV/SXS. While Yamaha is doing exactly the same with the 1049 and 998 engines. As much as blue bloods want them to rock a new chassis and a new engine specific to snowmobiles, that's just poor business and it won't happen. Sometimes, not participating in a bad market means we will supply what we are good at to those that want to gamble. Knowing that they can build engines based on supply needed. But will never have to gamble on stock sitting in showrooms at the end of the season. They will sell what they produce each and every year. That's a good business model. It is still business at the end of the day

So basically you are questioning the Polaris 850, Cat 800, Ski Doo 850 and new SD 600R. Only Yamaha has it right. The customers are not saying that with their purchases.

 

[cannondale27]

So basically you are questioning the Polaris 850, Cat 800, Ski Doo 850 and new SD 600R. Only Yamaha has it right. The customers are not saying that with their purchases.

Will be interesting to see how many more of the 2st guys switch to the 950turbo if it lives up to the hype. Winder converted many already. It’s a shame the epa has ruined the 2st because nothing compares in many cases.

 

[thor452]

Will be interesting to see how many more of the 2st guys switch to the 950turbo if it lives up to the hype. Winder converted many already. It’s a shame the epa has ruined the 2st because nothing compares in many cases.

Even worse when they re-nigged and allowed all the 2 strokes to carry on and Yamaha dropped 2 stroke and has fallen into dead last in market share because they believed them. If they had upheld the regulations they claimed they were going to that pushed Yamaha into four stroke only they would be number one because no one makes a better four stroke and two strokes would be basically gone or have no power left.

 

[sk-rx1]

Actually the 4 stroke itself to me is not the biggest issue. They just dropped the 1049 into the Cat chassis, they did virtually nothing to integrate it. It is 2 to 3 inches higher than the traditional Yamaha sleds. An compared to the Vector and Nytro it starts and runs poorly. They took the cheapest way out. Maybe acceptable for the 1st year or 2 but 5 years? The Sidewinder is better in many respects, but could be better still. Also the Viper is no champ on gasoline either. The 2 strokes have advanced, the NA 4 strokes have been as is for a while. The 4 strokes did not even get the much improved bodywork. As such I have an AC 600, and like it a lot. I could go back, if......

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

Actually the 4 stroke itself to me is not the biggest issue. They just dropped the 1049 into the Cat chassis, they did virtually nothing to integrate it. It is 2 to 3 inches higher than the traditional Yamaha sleds. An compared to the Vector and Nytro it starts and runs poorly. They took the cheapest way out. Maybe acceptable for the 1st year or 2 but 5 years? The Sidewinder is better in many respects, but could be better still. Also the Viper is no champ on gasoline either. The 2 strokes have advanced, the NA 4 strokes have been as is for a while. The 4 strokes did not even get the much improved bodywork. As such I have an AC 600, and like it a lot. I could go back, if......

They absolutely shoe horned the 1049 motor into the procross quickly and as cheap as possible to generate a BUZZ to sell units.
Hopefully they bought the time needed to develop what they are know for without pissing off a lot customers with the viper experience.
Also keep in mind... the insurance companies have a big influence with cc engine ratings.Under 1000cc is what is wanted.The 1049 is not going to work moving forward.

 

[cannondale27]

Today I heard 2st 800 Cat engine in Yamaha chassis developed in Minocqua 2020 release by a very good source. What are you locals there hearing?

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

That’s interesting you said that.
Back in 2016 I was talking to a owner of a Yamaha dealer in Maine.I took a apex xtx out for the day and when I was done, we got on the discussion of Yamaha DI 2stroke stuff. He then proceeded to tell me you would see something along those lines in the next couple of yrs.
It might be all adding up!!!!!!!

 

[cannondale27]

If it is a Cat engine then that tells alot since that engine was designed with the ProCross Chassis. It cannot be any lower or further back. Kinda thinking it would eliminate the possibility of using the side castings for a bulkhead like Phazer and Nytro. Would almost have to be a whole new chassis.

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

Makes perfect sense!!!!
They need a CHASSIS
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.....
Yamaha build a chassis PLEASE!!!!!!!!

 

[ccmviper]

The Cat engine isnt DI.Yamaha can use this technology in snowmobiles,anything else would be a little disappointing.A new chassis would be excellent but not with a Cat 2 stroke.

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

Working for a Japanese company( Subaru) I have learned that they are stubborn and do things that aren’t mainstream engineering thinking.
So it got me thinking...if they bring there own chassis to us market then you’ll probably see it with a cat 2stroke,
998turbo, and maybe a NA version to start with keeping the 4stroke theme.
Putting a cat 2stroke in initially will drawl some 2stroke diehards back while keeping the 4stroke guys happy.
Run the chassis, refine it as they should and if they have success, there DI 2stroke will appear.
I think there next step is more chassis then DI 2stroke for right now.
It’s gotta be all about the CHASSIS to start with.With out that... how cares about anything else.

 

[cannondale27]

Working for a Japanese company( Subaru) I have learned that they are stubborn and do things that aren’t mainstream engineering thinking.
So it got me thinking...if they bring there own chassis to us market then you’ll probably see it with a cat 2stroke,
998turbo, and maybe a NA version to start with keeping the 4stroke theme.
Putting a cat 2stroke in initially will drawl some 2stroke diehards back while keeping the 4stroke guys happy.
Run the chassis, refine it as they should and if they have success, there DI 2stroke will appear.
I think there next step is more chassis then DI 2stroke for right now.
It’s gotta be all about the CHASSIS to start with.With out that... how cares about anything else.

Right! Especially since most of us have had a good taste of how a chassis should work.