2020 Release

[ccmviper]

The Cats I ride with are really hard on fuel,a problem where we ride.I like long days on sled,dont like being too limited by fuel.The Cats are reliable but fuel consumption is a big issue for me.

 

[cannondale27]

The Cats I ride with are really hard on fuel,a problem where we ride.I like long days on sled,dont like being too limited by fuel.The Cats are reliable but fuel consumption is a big issue for me.

Yes I have about a 1/4 tank left when 800 cat is on full light for awhile even. Not sure how the new 800 is?

 

[Mototown]

Buddy has 18 cat 800 , eats fuel , still waiting for ecu reflash update from cat as of nov 1 .

Interview with Arctic Cat / Textron vp , pretty clear YamaKitty expansion on join venture in future & that 2 strokes are high on there priority list of artic cat .

 

[whitedust1]

So your theory is Textron is willing to spend R and D funds on development of a Yamaha twin 850. So Yamaha pulls an 850 2s epa compliant engine out of their butts with no previous 2s big bore experience. If I’m Yamaha I say no not my current expertise not what we want to develop no shared cost funds at this time. Ac may have the next 850 in development already and has had good luck with their 800 so logic says stay in-house. Yamaha is satisfied being a 4s snowmobile company lots of happy 4s users that want to purchase an all Yamaha 4s replacement for the Apex and Vector that’s Yamaha easy money.

 

[VX1R]

For what it's worth I've heard from a reliable source of mine that Arctic Cat should be releasing something in the 850 two stroke category that is supposed to hit the snow for the 2020 MY. From what I've been told this motor is 100% Arctic Cat.

Don't know just how many models it would be available in, but it's rumored that for the first year it's probably going to be used in just the mountain category.

Time will tell I guess.

I'm not sure how this thread ended up talking about AC motors???

 

[Mototown]

So what's Yamaha's input into the new sleds then ? Arctic Cat builds the chassis & makes 2 stroke motors with only 4-5 years experience making them and Yamaha sits back and watches ... lol . Yamaha has been down the road of making very good 4strokes motors phazer, nitro , & vector... but other than the Apex the sales are not there . I could see Yamaha coming out with a mini sidewinder at 600-700cc with multiple ecu flashes to cover different hp ratings. But I could also see Yamaha engineers taking on the 2s project as a challenge to brush up their tech . We will see...but I know I wouldn't buy a motor that was made buy a company with less than 4-5 experience making them ( Yamaha probably has motors on dyno's testing longer than that )

 

[whitedust1]

So what's Yamaha's input into the new sleds then ? Arctic Cat builds the chassis & makes 2 stroke motors with only 4-5 years experience making them and Yamaha sits back and watches ... lol . Yamaha has been down the road of making very good 4strokes motors phaser, nitro , & vector... but other than the Apex the sales are not there . I could see Yamaha coming out with a mini sidewinder at 600-700cc with multiple ecu flashes to cover different hp ratings. But I could also see Yamaha engineers taking on the 2s project as a challenge to brush up their tech . We will see...but I know I wouldn't buy a motor that was made buy a company with less than 4-5 experience making them ( Yamaha probably has motors on dyno's testing longer than that )

Textron has their money on in-house 2s not about to shut all that down on an unproven big bore Yamaha 2s or orphan all their current users in favor of
A Yamaha snowmobile 2s engine. That would not make financial sense at this time or bring confidence to their current customers. Sure Yamaha is a very capable motor company but 2s snowmobile engines not on their radar since 2003 current engineering resources not assigned to be thinking about 2s. Yep one can hope and dream about a Yamaha 2s but not in the cards right now. Survival after inventory reduction is front and center right now plus the continued existence of the snowmobile division with minimal investment. New 4s replacement sled for Apex and Vector is easy peasy for Yamaha and most likely direction.

 

[Mototown]

Textron for the most part is a utility atv motor company , and from the video moving their atv Germany motor plant St. Cloud , Arctics motor assembly plant. They are geared to make utility motors . Making utility and making racing 2s & 4s motors is at the opposite end of each other . Top brass at Yamaha would never put the name on a product that has a motor of a maker with no experience to ruin their name . Yamaha is the last Japanese manufacturer still making full size 2s dirt bikes . I Have a friend that has a 18 800 cat ,cat still hasn't come up with a emission pass Ecu reflash to stop raw fuel flames coming out the exhaust... like I said I wouldn't buy one & I don't think Yamaha would put their name on it. " inventory reduction " what that means is getting out of snowmobiles or coming out with a whole new line with a different way of thinking....back to light weight 2s with the sidewinder king of hp over 190 mark .
If Yamaha does decide to go this way , and skidoo decides to come out with a full line of 4 s . I'm sure the guys at Superx will be saying things like " skidoo is the leader in 4 s tech & 2s are unreliable , vibrate ,have narrow power bands & are bad on fuel... lol

 

[jjmoneysauce]

Just saying, Yamaha had a massive display at the annual snow show this year, and some hints of possibilities for the new sleds to be released for 2020. It is highly, highly unlikely that they are exiting the sled business, unless one supposes for some reason that the several inside folks who have spoken to it on record are lying and/or ignorant. On the contrary, the (re)introduction of the SnoScoot should perhaps point towards some possibilities for filling gaps in their lineup. I think that they recognize that the $20k sleds are just plain out of reach for most folks. I'll be hammering that website in March for sure.

 

[T-Bone]

So your theory is Textron is willing to spend R and D funds on development of a Yamaha twin 850. So Yamaha pulls an 850 2s epa compliant engine out of their butts with no previous 2s big bore experience. If I’m Yamaha I say no not my current expertise not what we want to develop no shared cost funds at this time. Ac may have the next 850 in development already and has had good luck with their 800 so logic says stay in-house. Yamaha is satisfied being a 4s snowmobile company lots of happy 4s users that want to purchase an all Yamaha 4s replacement for the Apex and Vector that’s Yamaha easy money.

Yamaha will not exist as a sled manufacture offering only 4-stroke sleds. The consumer has spoken and Yamaha only sold 11,000 sleds worldwide, 7,000 in
US and Canada (including the one two-Stroke they make) out of approximately 160,000 sleds sold worldwide. There sales numbers have been on a steady decline since before the introduction of the viper. Yamaha is not content with the number of sleds they sell. They are not making enough $ for them to invest in significant development. If you don't do R&D you're dead. As great of a sled as the Apex was how do they improve it, and what would it cost and how many do you think they would sell? IMO not enough to save them as a 4-stroke only company and invest in future R&D. Thats what they were and look where it got them. They need a high volume high profit sled to offer where they get all the profit not just some of it cause AC is getting the rest.

 

[trailtamer]

I’m just gonna dream of a new Yamaha built two stroke sled. If it happens, it happens. Until then I’ll enjoy my ‘14 Viper LTX for another year or two. Poo & Doo have me looking.

 

[STAIN]

I don't believe it is the fact that they only produce four strokes that led to diminished sales. I believe it is the fact that they didn't update their chassis or suspensions. You cant run the same chassis for over 10 years, especially if it wasn't a industry leader to start with.
There are plenty of people who would buy a four stroke with a killer chassis/suspension.
I cant understand why everyone is all horny over these 850 two strokes. Has anyone built a big bore 2s that would last? Suzuki with the 800 and 900 twins would last but other than that they are mostly time bombs. Polaris has an absolute horrible record with big twins yet everyone thinks this new 850 will be great. Why? What have they done prior to this that makes anyone think this will be better than the other piles of crap they made? The joke around here is that the 800 Ski Doo odometer starts at 3000 miles and counts backwards to 0 so you know when the crank lets go.
These new big twin 850's have absolutely no appeal to me without a few years of trail use behind them.

Make a reliable engine with a killer chassis and it doesn't matter how many strokes it takes to make power, it will sell.

 

[stevewithOCD]

We are close to 50 pages, so i'm going to keep posting.
STAIN has good points.
Going only 4-stroke is not the ONLY downfall Yamaha has/had.
Old chassis is just as huge.
No accessories.
Tsunami. Changed everything.
Belief in emissions.
Not seeing the off-trail market in advance.
Low snow & low overall sled sales for everyone.

Absolutely NO input from the public & what they want or wanted. Possibly why they moved HQ to Canada where the snow is.

When we reach 50 pages, we will be no closer to actually knowing what the future of Yamaha is then when this exact thread started in 2014...

 

[TPAY243]

STAIN you are right on the money this whole thread is the same old stuff with the same people complaining about it for the last couple of years. The worst part about it is the chassis and suspension they been using in the last 10 years is not that good. The Viper and Sidewinder are the best riding and handling sleds that Yamaha has ever released. If yamaha starts making there own snowmachines again i will stick with the Yamaha powered Cats. Yamaha builds top notch power plants but they are lacking in chassis and suspension design and it is not limited to there snowmachines. As far as the 2 stoke thingy why would any body want one of those time bombs big 850 that don't run out any better than the previous 800's. If your into mountain or off trail i guess I could see it coming into play but I'm not so don't really care about it. That segment is growing because the mountain s are the only place that gets snow on a regular basis.

 

[whitedust1]

If Yamaha designed in EPS on both Viper and Sidewinders that would have been sweet. Apex and Vector users want EPS for comfortable trail riding. Aftermarket MPS is very popular on non EPS models...I wonder why? Lol. I don’t care about extra 4s weight on lakes, unplowed FRs and groomed trails. Last thing I want is a 2s burn down 100 miles from home done with 2s never go back 2s ever for trail riding. I do want a more forgiving chassis than the ck and the mono with EC Ohlins were really good in the studders. Too bad Yamaha went air shocks on the SE they were on the correct path with EC Ohlins.