2020 Release

[jjmoneysauce]

Thank you. It seems to make the most sense. The company doesn't have much experience with two strokes.

Assuming that is written the way I read it, I can't agree with that statement. Yamaha's first 35 years featured extensive domination and innovation in 2 stroke tech. They more or less nailed it for decades. They simply stopped short of 800 plus big bore for a variety of reasons in the late 90s and early 2000s, and switched over to innovating and dominating the area of 4 stroke tech. Therein lies the heart of this thread. They lost their market cachet and every other meathead big bore snowcross mountain bro guy scoffs that they are heavy. So how do they get their mojo back? If history is any guide, it will be through substantial innovation.

Several of the 80s and 90s sleds are still relevant and active today!

 

[stevewithOCD]

Assuming that is written the way I read it, I can't agree with that statement. Yamaha's first 35 years featured extensive domination and innovation in 2 stroke tech. They more or less nailed it for decades. They simply stopped short of 800 plus big bore for a variety of reasons in the late 90s and early 2000s, and switched over to innovating and dominating the area of 4 stroke tech. Therein lies the heart of this thread. They lost their market cachet and every other meathead big bore snowcross guy scoffs that they are heavy. So how do they get their mojo back? If history is any guide, it will be through substantial innovation.

Well said.
Maybe he means they are behind in 2-stroke tech as of today. Which would be true.

 

[stevewithOCD]

Yamaha started making 2-strokes in the 50's & pretty much made THE BEST 2-strokes in every decade until 2003.
They were copied more then any other engine builder of their time.
That 4-cylinder 800 is music to many & the 700 SRX triple was lighter, more powerful then the big twins & faster then the T-cat 1000.

I still think they could bring back that 700 triple & refine it with newer electronics & injection and it would be a beast.

BTW: This thread is not about whining & crying, but having some fun pretending we are Corporate tycoons making the decisions at Yamaha.

100 pages worth by next week

 

[jjmoneysauce]

Yeah the vmax 4 kinda went plah, the rest of the sled didn't seem to be all that compared to the brutish speed of the power train. The 700 triples are still relevant today! I am keeping my eyes peeled for a mountain max 700!

 

[SumpBuster]

Okay so since everyone is trying to get this discussion to 100 pages, just thought I would jump into the fray and add my 2 cents worth. First have to say that I favor the Yamaha DB style machine over the Procross Yamaha units (kinda with Sasquatch on this). But my preference has nothing to do with which one is better quality, or ride, or plushness, or any of those other apparent flaws that have been discussed here for both styles.

For me it is all about rider positioning on the sled. Now I will freely admit that I have never ridden a unit with the Procross chassis, but I have ridden other rider forward machines (Polaris, Ski-Doo) and just not a fan of the sitting position. I am an old school rider, learned to ride on the more traditional 'sit down' style of the old IFS chassis machines and I still prefer that riding position. But since I am also a big 4 stroke guy, and since there seems to be little argument that Yamaha 4 strokes are high quality power plants, traditional Yamaha with it's sit down rider positioning was my choice, and I have not regretted it yet. Is my machine choice better then yours? Maybe, maybe not, but since we all have a choice, we can do what we want with our money and buy and ride what we like.

So as many have said on here, ride what you like and enjoy the ride on whatever frame style you like and enjoy that we all have a choice. If that does not work for you, argue on!

I line them up, and say have at it. Some guys did in fact prefer the apex for that reason.

 

[eou_edu]

Assuming that is written the way I read it, I can't agree with that statement. Yamaha's first 35 years featured extensive domination and innovation in 2 stroke tech. They more or less nailed it for decades. They simply stopped short of 800 plus big bore for a variety of reasons in the late 90s and early 2000s, and switched over to innovating and dominating the area of 4 stroke tech. Therein lies the heart of this thread. They lost their market cachet and every other meathead big bore snowcross mountain bro guy scoffs that they are heavy. So how do they get their mojo back? If history is any guide, it will be through substantial innovation.

Several of the 80s and 90s sleds are still relevant and active today!

What they did in the past is kind of irrelevant. Point being if they went with 2 strokes for the most part they would have to either start from scratch or find a motor supplier. If they find a motor supplier and already use a cat chassis what are they adding and what are they profiting from? If they are building from scratch they need at least 2 years to test it, pass emissions, and do that. I haven't heard of any "spy spots" that notice a new yamaha 2 stroke on the trail. So if they are planning that it won't be 2020. Besides all that if they enter into back into the 2 stroke world they have to figure out a way to compete with the other 3 (one of which they have a strategic partnership with) loose the loyal 4 stroke fans and try to pick up new one with from the other 3 with an unproven concept. Meanwhile fight restrictions of riding areas being closed for emissions reasons.

 

[eou_edu]

Some very interesting concepts here.
A single cylinder turbo i never thought of. Built for a turbo, it could be light & torquey. Yamaha is the only brand i trust to do it.
The twin could be the FZ-07 tweaked to work with a turbo.
And of course the 998 Turbo & the 3 hole 998 NA

-a 500 with 80 to 100 hp
-a 700 with 130 to 150 hp
-a 998 NA with 140ish
-a 998T with 200
Could be a nice line up plus they already have all these engines.

I believe AC & Yamaha redesigned or built a new chassis to fit the Yammi motors. That's where the evidence is pointing.
If you want a 2-stroke then most would just buy the Cat.

I don't agree they could be #1 in under 10 years or ever. BUT, they could put a dent in the big D's dominance.

I'd love it if that was the case............ I can't speak from experience and can only believe what I read. But a lot of the "4 strokes are heavier" is perception. I've read the 4 stroke phazer 2 cylinder motor itself weighed 82 lbs and the outgoing polaris patriot 2 stroke in the RMK was 78 lbs. People that added turbos to the phazer were in the 130 hp range unaffected by altitude. Of course a turbo will add 10 lbs to that, but 14 lbs more lbs is pretty small.......... Now if they went with the single cylinder? Yamaha is stingy about publishing weights but KTM's 501 4 stroke, single cylinder, SOHC weighs 62 lbs. Not that yamaha has or wants access to that but it does show what is possible with current technology. With a turbo and DOHC that motor would be knocking on the door of 100 hp and lighter than the lightest 2 stroke motors.

 

[Sasquatch]

This thread is supposed to be about what we think is coming out for 2020 not crying about what used to be...

Quit acting like five year old boys and grow up...

I feel like some of you could use a time out... NOW GO TO YOUR CORNER!!!!! Whether it’s full of Blue tears or Green cat piss just stand there with your nose to the wall little Jonny!!!

Used to be? You mean still is right? Besides who made you hall monitor? Go bad to the coffee room and be quiet!

 

[Sasquatch]

Wonder what a single cylinder turbo Phazer would sound like... could Yamaha get 100hp out of a single, the Phazer would be very light and quick if they could.

Couldn't be much worst then a turbo twin that sounds like an old john deere taking a dump.

 

[Sasquatch]

Assuming that is written the way I read it, I can't agree with that statement. Yamaha's first 35 years featured extensive domination and innovation in 2 stroke tech. They more or less nailed it for decades. They simply stopped short of 800 plus big bore for a variety of reasons in the late 90s and early 2000s, and switched over to innovating and dominating the area of 4 stroke tech. Therein lies the heart of this thread. They lost their market cachet and every other meathead big bore snowcross mountain bro guy scoffs that they are heavy. So how do they get their mojo back? If history is any guide, it will be through substantial innovation.

Several of the 80s and 90s sleds are still relevant and active today!

I like my sled and fat bottomed girls. Bring on the weight!

 

[biffdotorg]

What they did in the past is kind of irrelevant. Point being if they went with 2 strokes for the most part they would have to either start from scratch or find a motor supplier. If they find a motor supplier and already use a cat chassis what are they adding and what are they profiting from? If they are building from scratch they need at least 2 years to test it, pass emissions, and do that. I haven't heard of any "spy spots" that notice a new yamaha 2 stroke on the trail. So if they are planning that it won't be 2020. Besides all that if they enter into back into the 2 stroke world they have to figure out a way to compete with the other 3 (one of which they have a strategic partnership with) loose the loyal 4 stroke fans and try to pick up new one with from the other 3 with an unproven concept. Meanwhile fight restrictions of riding areas being closed for emissions reasons.

That's post #2 that would insult 99% of us that have owned them in the past and still feel they are relevant. So rather than bash your statement, I might suggest you go do a bit of homework on Yamaha's current 2-stroke offerings around the world and get back to us. Then you can try to make that comment again that Yamaha does not make a relevant 2-stroke.

Even if that motor is in an Outboard, Stand Up Superjet (my favorite) or dirtbike, the 2-stroke technology exists and is currently kicking #*$&@ in their application. Yamaha is very good at using technology across motorsports applications. My guess is with a bit of emissions, exhaust, cooling, etc, they are not far off from an industry leading 701cc 2 stroke based on the current Yamaha SuperJet. Let alone more utility two strokes taking advantage of technology used in current 2-stroke outboards.

Just because you can't buy some of these 150-200hp 2-stroke outboards etc. in the US, doesn't mean Yamaha doesn't make them.

 

[74Nitro]

That's post #2 that would insult 99% of us that have owned them in the past and still feel they are relevant. So rather than bash your statement, I might suggest you go do a bit of homework on Yamaha's current 2-stroke offerings around the world and get back to us. Then you can try to make that comment again that Yamaha does not make a relevant 2-stroke.

Even if that motor is in an Outboard, Stand Up Superjet (my favorite) or dirtbike, the 2-stroke technology exists and is currently kicking #*$&@ in their application. Yamaha is very good at using technology across motorsports applications. My guess is with a bit of emissions, exhaust, cooling, etc, they are not far off from an industry leading 701cc 2 stroke based on the current Yamaha SuperJet. Let alone more utility two strokes taking advantage of technology used in current 2-stroke outboards.

Just because you can't buy some of these 150-200hp 2-stroke outboards etc. in the US, doesn't mean Yamaha doesn't make them.

Biff, I haven't seen any hard evidence that Yamaha does any R&D in two stroke design. Any 2 strokes they do use are based off engines that are many, many years old.
The YZ250 dirt bike is an older engine for example.
With the release of the 900T I think Doo knows this, and is in the process of weaning their two stroke children into turbo-charged adults.

 

[biffdotorg]

Very valid point. And please don't take my tone the wrong way, just be sure you have done some homework.

As you so pointed out, all manufacturers use older technology if it works. The doo Ace 900 is not a new engine, The Ace 900T is not a new application of that engine. The newness of it is it's application is in a sled. But the engine has had a few years under it's belt. Doo is not so stupid to put 100% new technology in their bread and butter line of sleds to have it fail and give them a bad name. They will leave that to Polaris who manufacture engines for single purpose use like Snowmobiles or SXS.

Yamaha may design something from the ground up, but all this talk of releasing two brand new engines from the ground up to "simplify a line" makes no business sense at all. They would utilize current technology and standardize on other components. Engine design is not a single year venture by any means. Thus the reason the 998 is coming up in so many applications. The thought process is right, but cutting off a cylinder is not the way to do it. Computer control, exhaust and induction will be more accurate.

Just like SeaDoo did with the Ace 900 engine in the Spark. Let's release a low hp model that we can easily wick up 10hp and call it high output, or let the aftermarket wick it up to 110 with a software load. Genius! Oh, and lets do a Turbo version and drop it into a SXS for class leading hp.

I get what you are saying, so as I said, I am not bashing. Just do a bit more homework before saying it's not happening. My guess is if they plan on putting out a world class EFI/DFI 2-stroke in sleds, it has been in the works for the past 5 years with tight lips. Or it will not be happening.

 

[rtx moose]

there is yamaha 2 stroke dna in artic cat engines, i think the 600's were designed by yamaha engineers...chris reid posted about it years ago without directly saying...i would believe him from all others!!!

 

[03RX1-ER-LE]

To say "quote" "The company doesn't have much experience with two strokes" is laughable, they built 2 stroke sleds since the 60s and like today's 4 strokes, the most reliable engines out there.
My buddies 600 Venom loaner sled has 8k miles, still has 150 lbs in all 3 cylinders and never has had a wrench on the engine.