2021 Release?

[kinger]

Yamaha just please take a US built sidewinder to Japan with a list of issues you want resolved (the lists that are common here) give 3 engineers 60 days to develop a sustainable, scale-able, repair that works with TRF assembly procedures and can be inserted on all new yamahas for 2021. This shouldn't be a huge ask. I have been to TRF and know the assembly processes and would volunteer to go and help if I ever could. As a process engineer this is a dream assignment! Roll out all these new fixes. Then market it like crazy making sure all the other brand loyalist's can see. What they want is to test it for 2 years or longer to 'validate' as part of their ISO certifications. You don't need to validate every single small fix, showing the effort to fix will build brand loyalty rather then detract from it. Even if the fix doesn't work its better then waiting for years to try the ultimate end fix. Lets do iterative improvements and in 3 years you will have a bullet proof set up. Call up 100 enthusiasts on this site, call BOP, find out what they are doing. None of this costs money that would blip a budget line item for Yamaha. You are so close! The hard part is done in my eyes (chassis design, engine design) its small tweaks to make a 10,000 mile maintenance free chain case, bearings, tunnel reinforcement, suspension tweaks for durability, better post assembly QC process, etc.

Or do a couple fixes every 5 years......

 

[Tony S.]

Yamaha just please take a US built sidewinder to Japan with a list of issues you want resolved (the lists that are common here) give 3 engineers 60 days to develop a sustainable, scale-able, repair that works with TRF assembly procedures and can be inserted on all new yamahas for 2021. This shouldn't be a huge ask. I have been to TRF and know the assembly processes and would volunteer to go and help if I ever could. As a process engineer this is a dream assignment! Roll out all these new fixes. Then market it like crazy making sure all the other brand loyalist's can see. What they want is to test it for 2 years or longer to 'validate' as part of their ISO certifications. You don't need to validate every single small fix, showing the effort to fix will build brand loyalty rather then detract from it. Even if the fix doesn't work its better then waiting for years to try the ultimate end fix. Lets do iterative improvements and in 3 years you will have a bullet proof set up. Call up 100 enthusiasts on this site, call BOP, find out what they are doing. None of this costs money that would blip a budget line item for Yamaha. You are so close! The hard part is done in my eyes (chassis design, engine design) its small tweaks to make a 10,000 mile maintenance free chain case, bearings, tunnel reinforcement, suspension tweaks for durability, better post assembly QC process, etc.

Or do a couple fixes every 5 years......

I agree. There's a few simple things that can be done, in addition to the common issues to the SW. I told CR this a few yrs ago:

-Improve the injection molding process on the panels...So on a $18k machine badged as a Yamaha we don't have to look at parting line flash like a cereal box toy.
-Improve the quality of the handlebars and switchgear to bring it to a Yamaha level
-Better integrate the rear taillight and ditch the awful cheap stamped metal mount
-Use higher quality seat cover material, forming and stitching
-Use a premium paint and clearcoat like the previous Japan models

I'm sure there's other stuff...And please please ditch the god-awful kids toy LCD/dot matrix display for a premium TFT/OLED display that should be on a $18k machine!!

 

[mikextx]

$18 grand? Yikes. 2021 ZR Thundercat is $14k right now. What does that extra $4000 get you? Just asking

 

[darv]

I'm a true Yamaha nut raced back in the late 70's and tell you today was hoping for better thing happening with Cat/ Yamaha yes the sidewinder is a hell of a motor but the body it is in is sub par they will not fix the problems they have an to spend 15k plus a person should get some thing built a little better yes the apex is a big sled but it is built like a tank and will be here when hell freeze over but the pro cross will not be. Yamaha is making all kinds of money on this deal, they have hardly no expense's in these sleds except having to think of the new BNG and colors even in there snowmobile cloths the co branding is there no other OME does it but yamaha the FXR logo are bigger than the Yamaha logo too me it seem that they don't care anymore and they should get the hell out of the sled business so they can leave on a hight note not a sour one.

 

[tjmrtx]

I dont have a major problem with a joint venture with cat as long as yamaha has a substantial input with the build. But this method of paint and rebadging existing cats is not right. In reality yamahas 2021 release news is skis. They have proven in the past to come up with a new chassis before , like the phazer. Though it didnt turn out like they had hoped at least it was an effort. It would be tough for them to come out with the next best chassis in the industry without any real racing r$d to go off of. But i would like to see any new design whether just a trail cruiser or youth sled. It doesnt have to be a doo or a pol beater just a straight up yamaha.

 

[MrSled]

$18 grand? Yikes. 2021 ZR Thundercat is $14k right now. What does that extra $4000 get you? Just asking

MSRP to MSRP its within a few hundred bucks.. its up to the dealers to cut the price and blow them out.

 

[mikextx]

OK thanks Mr Sled, i was just going by their prices listed on their websites

 

[r_cordell]

The most frustrating thing, to me, is that Yamaha has the resources, capabilities, and loyal customer base, to build the absolute best sleds on the market, both 2 and 4 strokes! If they were 100% fully committed to it, they could have the majority market share within 5 years, absolutely no doubt in my mind! Find out what the people want, and give it to them, or get out of the snowmobile business altogether! This whole routine of leading us on is getting old. It's kinda like the hot chick in high school that's just friendly enough with you that you think you have a chance with her....

 

[ClutchMaster]

I agree. There's a few simple things that can be done, in addition to the common issues to the SW. I told CR this a few yrs ago:

-Improve the injection molding process on the panels...So on a $18k machine badged as a Yamaha we don't have to look at parting line flash like a cereal box toy.
-Improve the quality of the handlebars and switchgear to bring it to a Yamaha level
-Better integrate the rear taillight and ditch the awful cheap stamped metal mount
-Use higher quality seat cover material, forming and stitching
-Use a premium paint and clearcoat like the previous Japan models

I'm sure there's other stuff...And please please ditch the god-awful kids toy LCD/dot matrix display for a premium TFT/OLED display that should be on a $18k machine!!

That’s all fine and dandy but first let’s focus on reliability issues not cosmetics.

Yamaha just please take a US built sidewinder to Japan with a list of issues you want resolved (the lists that are common here) give 3 engineers 60 days to develop a sustainable, scale-able, repair that works with TRF assembly procedures and can be inserted on all new yamahas for 2021. This shouldn't be a huge ask. I have been to TRF and know the assembly processes and would volunteer to go and help if I ever could. As a process engineer this is a dream assignment! Roll out all these new fixes. Then market it like crazy making sure all the other brand loyalist's can see. What they want is to test it for 2 years or longer to 'validate' as part of their ISO certifications. You don't need to validate every single small fix, showing the effort to fix will build brand loyalty rather then detract from it. Even if the fix doesn't work its better then waiting for years to try the ultimate end fix. Lets do iterative improvements and in 3 years you will have a bullet proof set up. Call up 100 enthusiasts on this site, call BOP, find out what they are doing. None of this costs money that would blip a budget line item for Yamaha. You are so close! The hard part is done in my eyes (chassis design, engine design) its small tweaks to make a 10,000 mile maintenance free chain case, bearings, tunnel reinforcement, suspension tweaks for durability, better post assembly QC process, etc.

Or do a couple fixes every 5 years......

This is the first step^^^^^^^
If done before the sled is assembled the cost too the consumer is negligible.
Dare I say many of these simple fixes will put sleds on the snow for longer than wanted by the manufacturer, hurting new sled sales.
Food for thought in a disposable world.

 

[T-Bone]

I know the feeling. But ones definition of refined is not the same as others. My idea of refined is as I am riding. Lots of miles. Enjoying the handling,power,lack of noise and feedback. Just enjoying the scenery. Cripes last weekend as riding I was wondering why Cruise Control wasnt on my sled! I am not looking at fit and finish. I am "Feeling and hearing" there is just no comparison to the ProCross chassis and its ease of riding vs any other Yamaha ever made.

why can't you have both ? Why do we have to settle? The two are not exclusive of each other. You've accepted a significant lesser fit and finish for a cobbled together sled that drives better than almost all other Yamahas. The die hard true Yamaha fans would be more accepting if there were some Yamaha refinements to the current offerings. Where exactly is Yamahas contribution/refinement to this collaboration?

 

[ishpeming fan]

With any luck,Yamaha will lock the snowmobile division up in the factory so they dont get the virus and come up with A new sled!

 

[mikextx]

why can't you have both ? Why do we have to settle? The two are not exclusive of each other. You've accepted a significant lesser fit and finish for a cobbled together sled that drives better than almost all other Yamahas. The die hard true Yamaha fans would be more accepting if there were some Yamaha refinements to the current offerings. Where exactly is Yamahas contribution/refinement to this collaboration?

skis

 

[Mototown]

I guess the the most concerning point for me , is that Yamaha & cat have been together since 2014 . The current joint sled they introduce the venom this year , which is cool . But it doesn’t have any Yamaha quality parts in it namely the MOTOR . Being a motor company why on earth does the new joint sled have a motor from a company that has very little experience making motors ??? And where are you going in the future with joint sleds deal ???
The 2 stroke motors from cat now need be retooled and tested 650 & 850 cc to be competitive, and putting the Yamaha name on something that’s not leading edge of performance in the snowmobile industry is doing more harm than good .

 

[r_cordell]

Dare I say many of these simple fixes will put sleds on the snow for longer than wanted by the manufacturer, hurting new sled sales.
Food for thought in a disposable world.

I think a lot of people are fed up with the disposability of something they spend a lot of money on!
I don't think there's a downside to making a sled that goes forever... I think there are guys that buy new sleds every couple years, regardless if it's wore out or not. They simply want to ride the latest, greatest machine, or they want to be riding something that's covered by a factory warranty. When the warranty is up, they trade off. Then there are guys that are content buying the sled that guy trades off. It's a few years old, with a few thousand miles on it, but if it's still a reliable, quality built machine, there's really nothing wrong with it. The thing is, the more butts you can get sitting on your sleds, the better, no matter if the sled is brand new, or 5, 10, 20 years old! Parts sales make money too, and older machines require parts... The fact is, reputation and innovation sell snowmobiles. Yamaha has been losing its reputation for the last few years, and the innovation has been lacking, to say the least.

 

[cannondale27]

why can't you have both ? Why do we have to settle? The two are not exclusive of each other. You've accepted a significant lesser fit and finish for a cobbled together sled that drives better than almost all other Yamahas. The die hard true Yamaha fans would be more accepting if there were some Yamaha refinements to the current offerings. Where exactly is Yamahas contribution/refinement to this collaboration?

I will buy a sled that works over one that looks fancy anyday. Believe it or not since Yamaha the chaincase has been refined at least 4 times. Lights,plastic,suspension open your eyes and mind a bit.