2022 real world results

Sorry, not stock…22 top gear that’s all. No tune. My 270 tuned Winder has a very hard time with it!!
 
Confused said:
I agree with everything you said except the last line. I wouldn't say it is unrealistic, being the Tcat and Sidewinder throw up big numbers stock.
Click to expand...
I think the stock numbers on the Winder is much lower than what many have posted. You guys are starting to sound like DooTalk guys. My Winder never achieved the speeds many claim. On very long pulls on groomed trails it would barely hit 110 On the speedometer. This never bothered me because I’m not a big top end speed guy. I like a sled that hits hard corner to corner and can hit 100 quickly. That’s probably why the 900r I have will be fine.
 
OK
I'm going to answer this question as UN-BIASED as i can.
Let's not forget i owned 2 Winders and was one of the first guys breaking stuff that needed all the "fixes" on the Winder.
I now own a '22 900R Renegade, not a Mach.

We must remember that not ALL Winders ran good. A LOT were in the 180 hp range cuz every tube was loose. It took guys like KNAPP & DannO to dig into these things to get them up to snuff.
Also don't forget that it was hard to race in the beginning due to MOST didn't get far without blowing belts.

As of now a good running Winder will take my 900 on top.
I should have side by side results next week.
From a dig or roll up to 60, this 900 is gonna pull a Winder. Doo's transfer WELL which also hurts their handling in cornering.
And the throttle response is INSANE!

I must also state that i'm 500 rpm's low so DOO missed something here. Doesn't seem to blow belts, but they may have screwed themselves up thinking about the Launch Control on the Mach's that they forgot about top end.
Right now i'm about 2mph faster then an 850 POO POO or a very good running Apex. Not bragging, just stating facts.

So to answer the ORIGINAL question on this post.
Apples to Apples.........leave some room to run a 900R down...........then wave as you say skiskidoodoobyebye

FOR NOW!
SteveO Gots Sumptin' Cookin'
 
stevewithOCD said:
OK
I'm going to answer this question as UN-BIASED as i can.
Let's not forget i owned 2 Winders and was one of the first guys breaking stuff that needed all the "fixes" on the Winder.
I now own a '22 900R Renegade, not a Mach.

We must remember that not ALL Winders ran good. A LOT were in the 180 hp range cuz every tube was loose. It took guys like KNAPP & DannO to dig into these things to get them up to snuff.
Also don't forget that it was hard to race in the beginning due to MOST didn't get far without blowing belts.

As of now a good running Winder will take my 900 on top.
I should have side by side results next week.
From a dig or roll up to 60, this 900 is gonna pull a Winder. Doo's transfer WELL which also hurts their handling in cornering.
And the throttle response is INSANE!

I must also state that i'm 500 rpm's low so DOO missed something here. Doesn't seem to blow belts, but they may have screwed themselves up thinking about the Launch Control on the Mach's that they forgot about top end.
Right now i'm about 2mph faster then an 850 POO POO or a very good running Apex. Not bragging, just stating facts.

So to answer the ORIGINAL question on this post.
Apples to Apples.........leave some room to run a 900R down...........then wave as you say skiskidoodoobyebye

FOR NOW!
SteveO Gots Sumptin' Cookin'
Click to expand...
I agree Steve. We forget how much of an underachiever the Winder was back in 2017. I remember both Knapp and Rockerdan talking about how sluggish the stock Winder was and they both modified them a lot before they were even close to happy. There was a lot of talk about the decompressed turbo On the Winder being the problem. Other than a secondary change I left mine alone because top speed matters little to me. I’m guessing the issues with the 900r will get worked out because we know the hp is there. I have seen several dyno pulls and they are all upper 190’s.
 
Last edited:
XP123 said:
I agree Steve. We forget how much of an underachiever the Winder was back in 2017. I remember both Knapp and Rockerdan talking about how sluggish the stock Winder was and they both modified them a lot before they were even close to happy. There was a lot of talk about the decompressed turbo On the Winder being the problem. Other than a secondary change I left mine alone because top speed matters little to me. I’m guessing the issues with the 900r will get worked out because we know the hp is there. I have seen several dyno pulls and they are all upper 190’s.
Click to expand...
Oh come on now. The only single problem the 17 had was the secondary rollers would develop a flat spot.
In addition, the only changes from a 17 Winder to today's from a performance point of view is a reverse angle helix which some argue is inferior.
I was on a supercharged Nytro the first year the Winder came out, and my riding friend bought a 17 Winder. The first time a rode it I was blown away by the power and soon after ordered one.
 
stevewithOCD said:
OK
I'm going to answer this question as UN-BIASED as i can.
Let's not forget i owned 2 Winders and was one of the first guys breaking stuff that needed all the "fixes" on the Winder.
I now own a '22 900R Renegade, not a Mach.

We must remember that not ALL Winders ran good. A LOT were in the 180 hp range cuz every tube was loose. It took guys like KNAPP & DannO to dig into these things to get them up to snuff.
Also don't forget that it was hard to race in the beginning due to MOST didn't get far without blowing belts.

As of now a good running Winder will take my 900 on top.
I should have side by side results next week.
From a dig or roll up to 60, this 900 is gonna pull a Winder. Doo's transfer WELL which also hurts their handling in cornering.
And the throttle response is INSANE!

I must also state that i'm 500 rpm's low so DOO missed something here. Doesn't seem to blow belts, but they may have screwed themselves up thinking about the Launch Control on the Mach's that they forgot about top end.
Right now i'm about 2mph faster then an 850 POO POO or a very good running Apex. Not bragging, just stating facts.

So to answer the ORIGINAL question on this post.
Apples to Apples.........leave some room to run a 900R down...........then wave as you say skiskidoodoobyebye

FOR NOW!
SteveO Gots Sumptin' Cookin'
Click to expand...
Thanks SteveO!
The Winders get to 60 in fairly shot distance so I guess it not much of a race as of yet. Hope you guys get the 900r quirks sorted out soon. Competition makes for improvements. I don’t the 900r would have been released if it wasn’t for the 998.
 
74Nitro said:
Oh come on now. The only single problem the 17 had was the secondary rollers would develop a flat spot.
In addition, the only changes from a 17 Winder to today's from a performance point of view is a reverse angle helix which some argue is inferior.
I was on a supercharged Nytro the first year the Winder came out, and my riding friend bought a 17 Winder. The first time a rode it I was blown away by the power and soon after ordered one.
Click to expand...
Like I said we all have short memories. Did we not forget the belt blowers? There were many complaints about how the Winder lacked low end snap and others complaining about how their Winders hit a wall on top and barely hit triple digits. I personally was very happy with my Winders performance. To this day it still has stock clutching except for the secondary spring. I think back then the expectations were almost too high and it probably had a lot to do with the hype. I think the Mach is going through a similar scenario now. I’m sure the 900r will be a good performer and a good match for a stock Winder. The difference is the ceiling is limited for it where there really is no ceiling for the 998.
Most Winder owners have tuned their 998’s and there is nothing that will touch them.
 
stevewithOCD said:
OK
I'm going to answer this question as UN-BIASED as i can.
Let's not forget i owned 2 Winders and was one of the first guys breaking stuff that needed all the "fixes" on the Winder.
I now own a '22 900R Renegade, not a Mach.

We must remember that not ALL Winders ran good. A LOT were in the 180 hp range cuz every tube was loose. It took guys like KNAPP & DannO to dig into these things to get them up to snuff.
Also don't forget that it was hard to race in the beginning due to MOST didn't get far without blowing belts.

As of now a good running Winder will take my 900 on top.
I should have side by side results next week.
From a dig or roll up to 60, this 900 is gonna pull a Winder. Doo's transfer WELL which also hurts their handling in cornering.
And the throttle response is INSANE!

I must also state that i'm 500 rpm's low so DOO missed something here. Doesn't seem to blow belts, but they may have screwed themselves up thinking about the Launch Control on the Mach's that they forgot about top end.
Right now i'm about 2mph faster then an 850 POO POO or a very good running Apex. Not bragging, just stating facts.

So to answer the ORIGINAL question on this post.
Apples to Apples.........leave some room to run a 900R down...........then wave as you say skiskidoodoobyebye

FOR NOW!
SteveO Gots Sumptin' Cookin'
Click to expand...
If the sleds are equal in track, traction and left completely stock, a TCAT will beat the Mach, even from a dig. Mostly because of the gearing in the TCAT. An SRX may have a tougher time because of its higher gearing, but I bet its a tie. In a drag race, the transfer of the G4 hurts it. The best hole shot is with all the track on the ground.
 
SledFreak said:
If the sleds are equal in track, traction and left completely stock, a TCAT will beat the Mach, even from a dig. Mostly because of the gearing in the TCAT. An SRX may have a tougher time because of its higher gearing, but I bet its a tie. In a drag race, the transfer of the G4 hurts it. The best hole shot is with all the track on the ground.
Click to expand...
I agree on the less transfer being better for speed. The Doo guys love the front end in the air and for whatever reason they switch the rear for more transfer. It must be a look at me type thing along with blipping the throttle and making as much noise as possible. If you look at the Mach in the shootout, it damn near flipped over backwards. You could hear the fanboys with their ooh and aah’s but in the air like that equals slow.
I remember all the complaints mostly from Doo guys about how little weight transfer on the Winder but I thought it was one of the best parts of their rear suspension. Along with the front design the Winder handles awesome.
 
Been a Viper rider for the last 35,000 miles finally ordered a Lxt Gt Sidewinder because I wanted more power and power steering. Well it has not arrived but bought an 850 Skidoo. If the Sidewinder is faster its going to be a fun sled. My gf hates the Skidoo so she might be riding the Sidewinder. I like to keep it stock just want a reliable fun sled. So will have an 850 or a Viper for sale next month.
 
SledFreak said:
If the sleds are equal in track, traction and left completely stock, a TCAT will beat the Mach, even from a dig. Mostly because of the gearing in the TCAT. An SRX may have a tougher time because of its higher gearing, but I bet its a tie. In a drag race, the transfer of the G4 hurts it. The best hole shot is with all the track on the ground.
Click to expand...
Okay now let see the Real World Testing results! Speculation at this point
 
XP123 said:
Like I said we all have short memories. Did we not forget the belt blowers? There were many complaints about how the Winder lacked low end snap and others complaining about how their Winders hit a wall on top and barely hit triple digits. I personally was very happy with my Winders performance. To this day it still has stock clutching except for the secondary spring. I think back then the expectations were almost too high and it probably had a lot to do with the hype. I think the Mach is going through a similar scenario now. I’m sure the 900r will be a good performer and a good match for a stock Winder. The difference is the ceiling is limited for it where there really is no ceiling for the 998.
Most Winder owners have tuned their 998’s and there is nothing that will touch them.
Click to expand...
I wasn't on these boards much the first couple years when the Winders came out.
I do know lots of people in my area that ride them and service many also.
I really hear next to nothing in terms of complaints when it comes to performance of these sleds. And trust me, if they didn't perform to expectations the owners would be complaining, it's human nature to do so.
Yes, we'd all like more belt life, but are 850's much better.
 
The X-TXs with their uncoupled rear suspensions have no problem with weight transfer and when dialed in they actually work quite well for snow drags.
 
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