Apex clutch on Sidewinder

[sideshowBob]

'

Just to set the record straight on this. The belt speed goes up with OD for sure yes, but in OD its the jackshaft speed that is turning faster than the crankshaft, not the belt.

This is obviously correct but the fact remains 7- 10% overdrive increases the belt speed proportionately and with an engine speed of 8800+ creating jackshaft speeds in excess of 9400+ RPM any belt is definitely in the red zone if made to spin at the resultant RPM for any length of time. I used to spin belts that fast in my high RPM Mod snow drag sleds but that was only for 500' - 660'.
Belt rotational speed is also directly related to belt length on the same primary and secondary setup.
For an example the VMAX4s had an ultra long drive belt [52.5"] so when the jackshaft speeds on mod sleds were 9700++ the actual belt rpm was rotating slower then they would on a shorter belt like our Winders have.
Speed is math...

 

[KnappAttack]

'

This is obviously correct but the fact remains 7- 10% overdrive increases the belt speed proportionately and with an engine speed of 8800+ creating jackshaft speeds in excess of 9400+ RPM any belt is definitely in the red zone if made to spin at the resultant RPM for any length of time. I used to spin belts that fast in my high RPM Mod snow drag sleds but that was only for 500' - 660'.
Belt rotational speed is also directly related to belt length on the same primary and secondary setup.
For an example the VMAX4s had an ultra long drive belt [52.5"] so when the jackshaft speeds on mod sleds were 9700++ the actual belt rpm was rotating slower then they would on a shorter belt like our Winders have.
Speed is math...

Right, the belt rotational speed is down with longer belts but the FPS they run is still the same, they just make less rotations around the clutches for the same distance traveled essentially.

Wouldn't it be terrific if these new sleds ran long belts like that with a cushioned drive gear reduction high RPM four cylinder again? Now theres an idea. LOL!!

 

[Thunder Products]

Can't wait for some feedback on this , are you going to have a chance to try this this year?

Many of our customers have changed over to the Apex style (previous Yamaha) and are extremely happy with no issues. Everything from the sidewinder clutch will go in to the previous style clutch....only thing you have to do is add 3-4 grams of weight to your setup when changing over.

 

[DMCTurbo]

Many of our customers have changed over to the Apex style (previous Yamaha) and are extremely happy with no issues. Everything from the sidewinder clutch will go in to the previous style clutch....only thing you have to do is add 3-4 grams of weight to your setup when changing over.

Are the rollers lasting in the Apex clutches?

 

[Thunder Products]

Are the rollers lasting in the Apex clutches?

Yes they are

 

[STAIN]

Why???They are not different, are they?

 

[Thunder Products]

Why???They are not different, are they?

It's the weight and roller location circle that is different between the clutches. The Sidewinder has a larger circle to put more pressure or swing from the weights which puts more belt squeeze. But I am thinking putting more swing from the weights is playing havoc on the rollers. This is why we are seeing the heavy flatter weights taking rollers out sooner than other less gram weights.

 

[Doowithblue]

Apex had 9 tooth 2.52 drivers vs the winders 9 tooth 2.86 drivers. 13.5% larger on the winder.

2.52 pitch is taller gearing i thought vs 2.86.

 

[Byam]

2.52 pitch is taller gearing i thought vs 2.86.

9x 2,52=22.68
10x 2,52=25,2
11x 2,52=27,72

SW 9X2,86=25,74

 

[JayM]

Many of our customers have changed over to the Apex style (previous Yamaha) and are extremely happy with no issues. Everything from the sidewinder clutch will go in to the previous style clutch....only thing you have to do is add 3-4 grams of weight to your setup when changing over.

So I find an Apex clutch, transfer my weights etc over, add 3-4 grams and good to go? Can I still use stock length belt? (Ultimax XS825 is what I use now)

Same primary spring?

Is the Apex clutch quieter? That would be a bonus.

 

[Thunder Products]

So I find an Apex clutch, transfer my weights etc over, add 3-4 grams and good to go? Can I still use stock length belt? (Ultimax XS825 is what I use now)

Same primary spring?

Is the Apex clutch quieter? That would be a bonus.

Yes, you will be good to go.

Yes, same primary spring.

The Apex clutch will still have harmonics noise as it is the crank snub shaft...not so much the clutch. But the Apex style clutch has the extra set screws to lock the roller pins from moving and wearing. Or you can put plastic or rubber o-rings to keep the roller pin from moving also.

 

[Big_Phil]

Why???They are not different, are they?

The apex rollers are larger. I run the larger 15.5mm rollers on my sidewinder that I took off a used viper clutch. I now have 5000kms on the rollers and bushings are still good. They were used to begin with as well, so not sure on the total amount of kms currently.

 

[Fast]

Yes, you will be good to go.

Yes, same primary spring.

The Apex clutch will still have harmonics noise as it is the crank snub shaft...not so much the clutch. But the Apex style clutch has the extra set screws to lock the roller pins from moving and wearing. Or you can put plastic or rubber o-rings to keep the roller pin from moving also.

Do sidewinders have the set screws too

 

[74Nitro]

Sidewinders have the set screws too

Mine doesn't. Set screws for the weight pins, but not for the roller pins.
Note - I remember many years ago observing Iantomassi's pro-stock Vmax4. They only used the set screws to hold the pins for weights and rollers - no bolts at all!

 

[sideshowBob]

The Winder primary clutch does not have set screws holding the roller pins in place so the pins can rattle back and forth in the spider.
The Apex primary has set screws to secure both the weight pins and the roller pins so there will be a little less rattle from the Apex primary on the Sidewinder...probably not a huge difference though.