Apex lovers?? Is this the end??

[Sasquatch]

So they replace the Apex with a new one at 18k$ next year, you all complain it costs too much and everyone just keeps their old ones? Theyll never please everyone. ....... I love my Apex and would have loved to buy a viper for the newer better chassis, but the power just wasent there, short of buying a Turbo and bringing in a whole new set of possible issues.

I for one am happy to see Blue and Green working together, and truley believe if we can get them 100% working together they can make one hell of a machine for ALL of us. Cat has always had leading chassis designs and development, but lacked in quality and finish. Yamaha has always had awesome engines but lacked in good working chassis for anything but smooth roads and lakes...face it; its true.

If we could get a cat chassis GOOD and a yamaha powertrain GOOD and an overall machine up to our known and loved Yami specs and quality we ALL win. I feel the further the two companies intermingle and work together it would be THE best machine on the snow.

This is just what I needed to persuade me from my Apex, a mill with some balls that will pull harder than the Apex. Even the 1049 ran great loads of power down low fun from corner to corner but ran out of steam because its lacking the power over its smaller but bigger brother. Will I get rid of my Apex?...not a chance itll fit real nice next to my SRX. I feel all the guys knocking its not the 4 holer, how many of you have ridin this new machine to compare engines? Thats right only a select few have tried it out, so blindly saying this is not a replacement for the apex engine is dumb. I bet this thing rips the 4 holer apart in everything.

As for the handling issues, if you dont have it setup right of course its going to suck to ride. Every other post I see here is related to someone getting their Apex to handle, or it rides like crap but they love the engine so they keep it....... 99% of the buyers out there buy the sled and go ride it and wonder why it doesnt work like they said.....

Yam+Cat= good things to come

In that there is the fundamental problem, its not a Yamaha power train. Cat chain case leaves lots to be desired. So we go from a 2011 up that is drive train reliable to one that is not. As far as not riding a sidewinder your spot on neither have you and no its not the 4 hole, its missing something. As far as rip the Apex a new one I would hope so its got 30 plus hp on it but wait so did the Viper turbos and the Cat turbo before it yet neither could embarrass it. The four hole is the underdog and yet there it is hanging with the big guys. Turbo Cat 180hp has 2mph on my XTX same day, same snow, heavier sled and rider by probably 150 plus pounds overall. Not bad for a 150hp heavy sled not bad at all.

 

[Nytros rule]

the point is , if it is engineered by Yamaha , it can be built almost anywhere in the world , even the states or Canada .

Do you work for WalMart. Yes people in Canada and the United States can still manufacture all sorts of things.

 

[MrSled]

In that there is the fundamental problem, its not a Yamaha power train. Cat chain case leaves lots to be desired. So we go from a 2011 up that is drive train reliable to one that is not. As far as not riding a sidewinder your spot on neither have you and no its not the 4 hole, its missing something. As far as rip the Apex a new one I would hope so its got 30 plus hp on it but wait so did the Viper turbos and the Cat turbo before it yet neither could embarrass it. The four hole is the underdog and yet there it is hanging with the big guys. Turbo Cat 180hp has 2mph on my XTX same day, same snow, heavier sled and rider by probably 150 plus pounds overall. Not bad for a 150hp heavy sled not bad at all.

I didnt see u beating anyone across that lake in Manitoba. My na viper sure didn't loose to yours Lol

 

[Heritage]

I knew this would bring out the "passion"...lol....don't get me wrong...I love my xtx...the apex is a thing of beauty...the 2011..and newer are far better machines than the 06 to 10 apexes...yamaha addressed many issues....the one thing they didn't was suspension...I'm sorry...but since 02 (my viper)...yamaha has had terrible skids/shock calibrations compared to the competition...and while my xtx is probably the best skid for aggressive riding that I have had in a yamaha...but it's far from perfect.
This is were cat comes in...cat has always had good riding, and handling sleds....my f1000 lxr was a sweet ride...it rode very good, very comfy...far better than my xtx.
The viper is far better through rough terrain than ANY apex...it's a hard pill to swallow that a company that has been dominant in motocross can't calibrate shocks, or design skids that work.
I too would love to see a 100 percent yamaha...but I have also changed my stance...I was against the viper...not anymore.....the sidewinder is the faster better handling, better riding apex...hands down. That being said...yamaha doesn't developed stuff, and then throw it away...the ss skid, power steering, and exup are going to show up on something...I truly believe that...I guess we will see what the future brings...if it's yamaha just supplying engines to cat...I'm ok with that, and that is what I will ride in the future

 

[whitedust1]

Anybody know what hp a 998 is without turbo? This might be our tweener engine between Viper & Turboed SW for and an all Japan mfg power cruiser in 2018?

 

[DranttelSS]

Anybody know what hp a 998 is without turbo? This might be our tweener engine between Viper & Turboed SW for and an all Japan mfg power cruiser in 2018?

Makes 110-115 HP in the YXZ side by side

 

[whitedust1]

Makes 110-115 HP in the YXZ side by side

Well there you go for ACE competitor and 4 banger may live on in new powercruiser.

 

[blueironranger]

Biggest thing against the 4 hole is the width, the wider you have to build the chassis to cradle the engine the more support it needs to have the same strength and compromises to the chassis must be made. Honestly I could see them just using the 998t in a few different HP classes, pretty easy to dial up or down the boost level to meet what ever power goal they have. You KNOW the 998na will show up in the next year or two, but will it be a new Vector or Venom? It would be a sweet "500" class mill that would be great for entry level/cruiser/2 up duty.

 

[Heritage]

Well there you go for ACE competitor and 4 banger may live on in new powercruiser.

That's exact what I think....competition for the 900 ace...that 998 is a great motor...it would fit that gap perfectly

 

[whitedust1]

Biggest thing against the 4 hole is the width, the wider you have to build the chassis to cradle the engine the more support it needs to have the same strength and compromises to the chassis must be made. Honestly I could see them just using the 998t in a few different HP classes, pretty easy to dial up or down the boost level to meet what ever power goal they have. You KNOW the 998na will show up in the next year or two, but will it be a new Vector or Venom? It would be a sweet "500" class mill that would be great for entry level/cruiser/2 up duty.

I understand what you are saying but that turbo adds cost to mfg then passed on to us. If the mfg costs drops with greater 998 engine numbers to broadcast across different turbo hp niches I would indeed like that if costs can be kept in line. BUT I don't see mfg costs being controlled to benefit the customer..... Maybe Yamaha but not us. I embrace the dial in hp for 998 with factory turbo & think it is very doable but not cost effective imo. I would very much like to be wrong about this.

 

[DSimps10]

Getting back to is this the end...I would say this confirms Sidewinder is taking the place of Apex. I would think this is like 2014, the Viper came out and Nytro was still made but come 2015 Nytro was gone.

 

[Sasquatch]

I didnt see u beating anyone across that lake in Manitoba. My na viper sure didn't loose to yours Lol

LOL it was let off or run into you. Poor Don let off way sooner as we sandwiched him out. Guess everyone running in a straight line would have been better. You do forget though that the two Apexes I dragged raced and all three of us where dead even across the lake. Well one of those raced your sled and beat it so Hmmm! If I remember right that Apex also stuck with one of the Turbo Vipers. Just sayin!

My Apex and I are not 1/4 miles drag racers but lake racers both of us are a bit portly. Never said my Apex was quick but I know its fast. Turbo Viper and Turbo Cat both are stronger in the middle but not so much on top!

Maybe a rematch next year!

 

[MrSled]

LOL it was let off or run into you. Poor Don let off way sooner as we sandwiched him out. Guess everyone running in a straight line would have been better. You do forget though that the two Apexes I dragged raced and all three of us where dead even across the lake. Well one of those raced your sled and beat it so Hmmm! If I remember right that Apex also stuck with one of the Turbo Vipers. Just sayin!

My Apex and I are not 1/4 miles drag racers but lake racers both of us are a bit portly. Never said my Apex was quick but I know its fast. Turbo Viper and Turbo Cat both are stronger in the middle but not so much on top!

Maybe a rematch next year!

Lmao. I was on a viper. Whatever. Be glad to race again. This time I'll have it on video.

 

[Sasquatch]

Getting back to is this the end...I would say this confirms Sidewinder is taking the place of Apex. I would think this is like 2014, the Viper came out and Nytro was still made but come 2015 Nytro was gone.

Or it just means its the top of the HP heap! Time will tell! I can see though that Yamaha seems to have no interest in building sleds anymore and instead is concentrating on building engines. So the demise of the Apex and all sleds of the Delta box chassis does seem immanent. Thankfully though we still do have a pogo stick VK 540 so not all is lost. Sarcasm intended!

All this time and not one new sled engineered from Yamaha, the only creation was cobble in a three hole in a cat chassis that sits too high and build a turbo 998 for the same chassis. The turbo 998 is a wonder indeed and hats off to Yamaha but really in all this time! I think maybe the handwriting is on the wall. No longer four manufactures of sleds the future is looking bleak with only three and one engine builder!

Don't know where Yamaha's mindset is but unless they build a chassis of their own they have fallen by the wayside. Killing of the Apex without a New Yamaha chassis for it, or moving the motor to the Cat chassis would be the final nail in the coffin. Not sure where that leaves the Phazer!

And to all those who think that this is anti Viper or sidewinder talk your wrong. Its not, both the Viper and the Sidewinder are great sleds but so are the Cat equivalents the 7000 and the new 9,000, what is about to be lost is the Yamaha individuality and that my Yamaha friends is a sad day. No slam to the Viper owners and the new to be Sidewinder owners I respect your choices in a sled and think that they are not bad ones. We can not always agree on the same sled.

Where this leaves me and many others is a good question, thankfully my 2011 can go for many more years and at 10,000 miles is just broke in. Maybe a Yamacharger is needed to keep up with the new Sidewinder on the Lakes? Theres a thought! Or maybe pick up a Venture and swap a Apex engine into it and get back my Rocket Couch. Or just embrace the Cat and ride another T-Cat. I love the white red and black. Just like everyone else getting tired of waiting for the sled I want.

 

[Sasquatch]

Lmao. I was on a viper. Whatever. Be glad to race again. This time I'll have it on video.

Yes you where, did you not remember? First thing that goes as you age Tom. I think I may have it on video when we almost killed poor Don!