Best Helix

[@123]

I also found the same results as you back in the day with 835 SRX running HeelX roller secondary 41/32 stiff spring, motor had plenty of grunt to accelerate and top end was amazing

just a question are you really sure you can compare a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke turbo on clutching? just want to understand i think the turbo have more torque at top end ?

 

[actionjack]

That's correct (I was originally subscribed to this thread) ,
And I agree with you.

Whatchoo think of of lower starting angle for 1.6 track?
32/38
32/36

I have TD's clutch kit with your weights and will be running stock muffler TD tune (or maybe 240 race tune).

 

[actionjack]

I just picked up ulmers stage 2 which is a spring and helix. Comparing helix angles and without knowing ulmers angle (all he told me is its a multi angle, not a reverse).

First pic is the stock 35 with daltons 35/39 reverse next to it.

Second pic is stock 35 with ulmers helix, quite the difference in angles.

Hmmm Ulmers kit looks like what I am thinking.

 

[yamaha06]

Whatchoo think of of lower starting angle for 1.6 track?
32/38
32/36

I have TD's clutch kit with your weights and will be running stock muffler TD tune (or maybe 240 race tune).

I am going to try the Dalton 33/35 helix on my sled. Will be running the Hurricane 270 race tune, STM Weights, Orange Secondary Spring, stock gearing since I can't find a 22 anywhere and I have the 1.6" ice cobra track.

 

[ClutchMaster]

I also found the same results as you back in the day with 835 SRX running HeelX roller secondary 41/32 stiff spring, motor had plenty of grunt to accelerate and top end was amazing

Yes I have a HeelX roller on my mountain sled it has got to be one of the best back shifting / up shifting rollers I have ever used. Steel rollers on steel helix have relatively no friction.
They also wrote a very good article on how helix diameter affects belt side pressure. Something most sidewinder owners I bet don’t consider when choosing a helix angle. The helix is larger in diameter so it needs to be a shallower angle to produce the same force as a old school Yamaha helix.

 

[VX1R]

Great post ClutchMaster. Talk about a blast from the past.

Back in the day I ran a Aaen roller secondary in my trusty old '94 V-Max 600 with outstanding results. I'm pretty sure that Olav will forget more than I'll ever know about clutching, but I'm still chipping away trying to learn everything that I can. It's too bad that the steel on steel rollers/helix idea never took off with the OEM's. I'm sure the bean counters thought that the cost of the performance gains were too expensive and left it to the aftermarket.

Randy from Super Torquer followed up with his Heel X roller secondary that also worked great. Like you mentioned....no friction with awesome up shifting/back shifting.

I probably have the article that you mentioned. I'm pretty sure it was in an issue of Snow Tech magazine where they mentioned the larger diameter helix would need a shallower angle to get the same force as the old school button style helix.

It's a steep learning curve for most of us who've stepped up to the new power levels of the SideWinder to grasp the clutching requirements of this new motor and it's power delivery. Just look at the OEM helix from the Apex: 51/43 dual angle with a button style secondary compared to a straight angle 35 on the SideWinder with a roller secondary.

There's a lot of options available right now in clutching with this relatively new power plant and it's going to be interesting to see what's going to be the hot set up this season. I'll be testing a few set ups with my stock SW's to see what kind of gains I can achieve over the stock set up.

 

[ClutchMaster]

just a question are you really sure you can compare a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke turbo on clutching? just want to understand i think the turbo have more torque at top end ?

Two strokes are generally harder to clutch than Four strokes because the power band is narrower.

Running a reverse angle helix vs. standard progessive has a lot to do with the weight profile your running. Running an aggressive profile weight and a reverse helix hasn’t worked well for me anyway. Flat profile weights like the stockers seem to work better with reverse helixes. M2C

 

[ClutchMaster]

I found it, hard to believe it’s still online after all these years! Good read. Check the illustrations out they help a lot in my case, I only have 4th grade reading comprehension Lol

http://www.sledgear.com/heelx_tech.htm

 

[DMCTurbo]

That is one thing that Shagman and myself are open with is clutching. We don't race grass or ice and when we race asphalt we need to be as close as possible to our dial-ins as can be. Sure, we want to run as fast as we can, but we need to be spot on and consistent with clutching so we can go rounds. Best part of Shagman's setup is that I am 25 lbs heavier and when I took his sled for a test pass, it was only .010 slower in the 1/4 mile.

Your sled should be running 120's easy deekersrx700. Last season on snow my Sidewinder ran 135mph on trail 419 by Shagman's place. This was with 21/41 gearing and the 1.6 cobra track. That clutch setup is not working for you. You will want to keep that 35/39 for top end.

First run of the year and by just changing from my 1.75 backcountry to a ripsaw 2 with 192 Megabites I gained 15 mph GPS... All else the same.

 

[DMCTurbo]

So after not blowing a belt in 2000 miles last year all of a sudden I've blown 2 in 200 miles this year. 3 changes,TP secondary spring wrapped at 3-3, TP secondary adjuster and track change with studs. I'm on a week long trip up north. Pulled my secondary apart last night thankfully where we are staying has a heated garage. Everything looks good. Not sure what the issue is. Hopefully I have better luck today. Could I have had my deflection too tight? That's the only thing I can think of that might have been different from last year.

 

[jonlafon1]

So after not blowing a belt in 2000 miles last year all of a sudden I've blown 2 in 200 miles this year. 3 changes,TP secondary spring wrapped at 3-3, TP secondary adjuster and track change with studs. I'm on a week long trip up north. Pulled my secondary apart last night thankfully where we are staying has a heated garage. Everything looks good. Not sure what the issue is. Hopefully I have better luck today. Could I have had my deflection too tight? That's the only thing I can think of that might have been different from last year.

You say you changed the track? And studded it. This might be was causing it. And what I'm saying is depending on the model and gearing changing track and it bigger lug length can be hell with wrong gears. It could be causing your clutching to get hot. I'm not a track/gear junkie. Maybe someone else can chim in. Good luck.

 

[DMCTurbo]

You say you changed the track? And studded it. This might be was causing it. And what I'm saying is depending on the model and gearing changing track and it bigger lug length can be hell with wrong gears. It could be causing your clutching to get hot. I'm not a track/gear junkie. Maybe someone else can chim in. Good luck.

Went from 1.75 to 1.25 with studs, geared up to a 22. If anything I would have thought gearing up would keep the clutches more efficient. Funny thing is I blew the second belt cruising at 60-70 mph.

 

[jonlafon1]

Just cruising 60-70. Interesting, any on off throttle hard before the belt brake cruise? Sounds like your clutching is running hot. What primary spring you running? Check primary spring?

 

[DMCTurbo]

Just cruising 60-70. Interesting, any on off throttle hard before the belt brake cruise? Sounds like your clutching is running hot. What primary spring you running? Check primary spring?

Ulmer spring. No just slow cruising and pow. I did adjust deflection with the new belt and 80 miles of easy riding and clutches were cool when I pulled it in the garage. Hopefully today is better.

 

[jonlafon1]

Th

Ulmer spring. No just slow cruising and pow. I did adjust deflection with the new belt and 80 miles of easy riding and clutches were cool when I pulled it in the garage. Hopefully today is better.[/QUOTE
Got me. My guess is the track change and studs. Just a guess. Hope you get her dialed in