Tcat100
Expert
Well this is simply not my experience. As long as I stay under 200 I get 1200 miles per belt on 300hp with studs on rail grades. Check out the SxS forums, those guys push the limits big time. Delam starts above 200.
ClutchMaster
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That may be so, but a hot sticky belt wedging into your sheaves, 9000 times a minute isn’t efficient at all. When I first put the turbo on my Viper and was running the gates Carbon belt I had temps around 200 degrees. My top speeds were garbage, very inefficient. So it’s more than just belt life for me.
I’m just trying to help you and others following your lead, but you’ll have nothing to do with it.
Tcat100
Expert
I'm sorry, didn't know I was asking for help. I was trying to help guys who said their Tapp was cool and their secondary was warm or hot. And on the other thread you complain that your secondary was warm. Mines not...That may be so, but a hot sticky belt wedging into your sheaves, 9000 times a minute isn’t efficient at all. When I first put the turbo on my Viper and was running the gates Carbon belt I had temps around 200 degrees. My top speeds were garbage, very inefficient. So it’s more than just belt life for me.
I’m just trying to help you and others following your lead, but you’ll have nothing to do with it.
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ClutchMasterHUGE Member
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That sucks. At the time, they told me once it's programed it's available. The 32 finish is the more important part to control heat on the long stretches...
Jeez that Tapp must really squeeze the belt!
I just might have to try a 34 or 32 finish, my clutches are pretty hot after a lake pull. I would also like to ditch the STM orange secondary spring and go back to the Cat green. The orange gets me more mph but runs warmer just trail riding than the Cat green.
snowcaine
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Gentlemen, many thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread, and special thanks to Tcat100 for graciously giving me an hour of his time today, Big_Phil for entertaining my questions and sharing his setup, Mr. Knapp for sharing his knowledge, and of course ClutchMaster and all others adding their knowledge to this thread. I'd say we're all generally working toward the same goal (fast riding with cool clutches), so this has been quite helpful.
Now, I would like to share some more pictures and kindly ask, what the hell happened here??
Now, I would like to share some more pictures and kindly ask, what the hell happened here??
ClutchMaster
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Gentlemen, many thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread, and special thanks to Tcat100 for graciously giving me an hour of his time today, Big_Phil for entertaining my questions and sharing his setup, Mr. Knapp for sharing his knowledge, and of course ClutchMaster and all others adding their knowledge to this thread. I'd say we're all generally working toward the same goal (fast riding with cool clutches), so this has been quite helpful.
Now, I would like to share some more pictures and kindly ask, what the hell happened here??
Didn’t look like the clutch spun on the stub shaft, is there any galling on the stub? It looks like that it was very hot. Belt blew and clutches slammed together releasing the taper? Did you torque it to 100 ft/lbs release, then retorque to 48 ft/lbs?
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ISLANDRACING
Extreme
NYTurbo, I asked this question about 2 months ago on another post about the TAPP/PRO4 combo WITHOUT any response ( or measurement ) other than my own. Maybe no one that bought this combo has the technical tools ( 2 straight edges and a caliper ) to do this difficult job. Everyone saw the inconsistent measurements with the stock setup to try and get the offset right, this combo shouldn't be any different.
NYTurbo
TY 4 Stroke God
Don't see where the offset would be any different taking into account sheath thickness. TAPP should have a measurement for offset. I do know offset isn't right your going to tear belts at an alarming rate and as the horsepower increases the worse it gets. As per tools , don't over complicate it , you can do it with one straight edge and calipers. Lol
74Nitro
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That's right, all that's needed is a piece of keystock and a caliper.
74Nitro
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What's the second straight edge for? And what is difficult.
Not being smart here, I'm just asking.
The clutch has obviously spun on the stub shaft which resulted in the broken bolt.
The wear on the back of the Clutch and the damage to the stub shaft bearing collar surface indicates the clutch was in too close to the engine with no gap between it and the collar.
This could be one of or a combination of two issues.
1 - the stub shaft has moved inward on the bearing resulting in the clutch being to close to engine...in my mind this is the most likely scenario.
Maybe when you torqued the clutch down you were actually loosing effective torque as the clutch bottomed out on the stub shaft collar so the clutch really wasn't torqued on to the taper as much as it needed to be.
2 -[less likely] the taper on the clutch allows the clutch to sit too far in on the stub shaft so there is not enough or no clearance between the back of the clutch face and stub shaft collar.
It could actually be a combination of both scenarios
JM.02c
The wear on the back of the Clutch and the damage to the stub shaft bearing collar surface indicates the clutch was in too close to the engine with no gap between it and the collar.
This could be one of or a combination of two issues.
1 - the stub shaft has moved inward on the bearing resulting in the clutch being to close to engine...in my mind this is the most likely scenario.
Maybe when you torqued the clutch down you were actually loosing effective torque as the clutch bottomed out on the stub shaft collar so the clutch really wasn't torqued on to the taper as much as it needed to be.
2 -[less likely] the taper on the clutch allows the clutch to sit too far in on the stub shaft so there is not enough or no clearance between the back of the clutch face and stub shaft collar.
It could actually be a combination of both scenarios
JM.02c
Another thing I noticed on your stub shaft picture is the line on the larger radius on the stub shaft. It looks to me like the clutch was bottoming out on the larger stub shaft inner radius which would prevent the clutch from seating properly when torqued down. I have a picture of the stock stub shaft on my Winder and there is no line on inner larger radius.
Your shaft...notice the line further in on larger part of shaft
My shaft notice no marks anywhere but on the taper
Also it looks like my stub shaft is our a bit further in the bearing but hard to tell without a measurement
Your shaft...notice the line further in on larger part of shaft
My shaft notice no marks anywhere but on the taper
Also it looks like my stub shaft is our a bit further in the bearing but hard to tell without a measurement
KnappAttack
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Oh boy,
That clutch looking like its obviously not seating properly on the shaft and hitting the housing. The question is why? They can't all be like that or we'd be seeing many more with the same type of issues.
And that is why the bolt broke too, the clutch was spinning on the shaft and just kept tightening itself up till it broke and launched the clutch into the belly pan spinning till it stopped.
That clutch is no longer usable, and did it also damage the secondary beyond use?
That clutch looking like its obviously not seating properly on the shaft and hitting the housing. The question is why? They can't all be like that or we'd be seeing many more with the same type of issues.
And that is why the bolt broke too, the clutch was spinning on the shaft and just kept tightening itself up till it broke and launched the clutch into the belly pan spinning till it stopped.
That clutch is no longer usable, and did it also damage the secondary beyond use?
74Nitro
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Is it possible the taper inside the clutch cracked. I remember someone showing a Yamaha clutch that had done that.
ISLANDRACING
Extreme
The" difficult" part was just a bit of sarcasm because NOONE but myself took the time to post any offset #'s. You're right its NOT difficult. 2500$ setup, and by now plenty people running the combo, and either noone measured or noone posted it. But when you do use 2, you can use the "inside" of the caliper.
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I am thinking the clutch in question has the wrong taper for the 998 stub shaft?
