blown belt issue fixed

[SEVS11]

So which weights did you prefer .... The QAY 70 or DTYA 1?

 

[Lonerider]

So which weights did you prefer .... The QAY 70 or DTYA 1?

when ran with a stock spring, same weight QAY 70 had more top end with a heaver rider. BUT, if you add a green dalton spring it changes everything! you need a lot more weight with it, so DTYA1. Changing the spring we seen 9600 RPMS on the QAY 70"s @ 73 grams. By only changing the spring. So need to add a lot to get the rpm down, one sled runs 119 Dtya-1 the other QAY 70 121, side by side on video, on stock primary spring. Both Sleds way quicker with green spring, at any speed up to 100mph

 

[theewarrior]

Just curious have you ever ran thunder products orange in the primary with the Dalton DTYA – 1 weighs

 

[74Nitro]

Blew belts at 80 miles. I spent thousands of dollars to fix this problem, I have input from a lot of racers, aftermarket manufacturers, dealers, engineers. I have 5878 miles on my sidewinder & this past week I finally have it to a point I CANNOT BLOW A BELT! The spec that Yamaha is bs in my opinion. It works for one but not others. WHY , simple - quality control. We all know some sleds have a shim, maybe 2, to far out or in...

We got my 2 sidewinders to be able to withstand full throttle pulls time after time, 8000 rpm runs till your thumb was tired and then bang it wide open, Non stop hour rides as fast as we could go.(Chapleau to Searchmont ) in 4 hours. It doesn't blow anymore. 1578 miles this past week. 2 sidewinders both with TD flash running 265 powertrail.

Long story- not short, this is what how we did it & we are running now. ( not talking about the stuff that didn't work or how many springs, weights, primary & things that do not fix the issue.) For starters you must have the alinement tool from Hurricane. ( primary & secondary are not all the same thickness ) The tool allows you the only way I have found to measure wear the BELT RIDES, not how thick a casting is or how much was cut off a casting. Once you see how far out of alinement you are the hard part starts. I had to have my secondary shaft milled down 342/1000 & remove all shims to get it were I am running it now. ( this number is different from machine to machine or if we changed primary or secondary, this is why you must have the tool to start.) I worked with Micro Belmont to have my secondary shaft cut down. ( THANKS GARY ) NOTE: I cut down the aluminum plug the same amount as what I had cut off the secondary shaft. ( Thanks to PATS Motorsports) By cutting the plug ( part # 8kc-RA714-00-00) down it solved the floating clutch problem i got when we cut the secondary. Now its none floating or a fixed secondary. (ONLY 1 sled needed to have any cut off secondary to get it alined.) Next we needed OEM YAMAHA PARTS. larger secondary shims, cost about $1 each, 2 different sizes. part number 8jp-RA448-00-00 & 8jp-Ra449-00-00. (1mm and 2mm shim) AND small shims 8kc-RA446-00-00 & 8kc-RA447-00-00, .2 & .5 thick. Use the large shims to get the EXACT ALINEMENT!!! Nothing except exactly perfect will work. I quote dave from Hurricane: GET IT EXACT!

Now the secondary is alined you need to Buy a new helix, stock helix is a major part of the problem in our opinion. (YAMAHA changed the helix on the new 2019 models??) Because they are part of the problem? We are now running the Thunder Products secondary rollers & Holeshot 33/35 helix and also went added the Dalton Orange secondary spring. Why this product, just the brand WE picked with input from people we talked to. This helix shifts smooth & backshift smooth not allowing slack in the belt like the stock helix does. Now it time to set belt deflection or belt ride hight & engagement. We have our belts VERY lose. Belt sits very high on secondary 1/8 above or more. We have ours so it is able to just spin, turn or rotate the belt without primary or secondary moving. (TRAIL SETUP, NOT FOR OFF TRAIL, LOOSE BELTS WILL BLOW IN POWER EVERTIME)

By doing this the sidewinder belt life increased a lot, But we were not satisfied, we both were having primary spring bind, I broke my first primary spring in less than 500 miles & and jasons lasted much long with glide washers, but still broke, we tested different weights & springs. 1 sled runs Dalton QAY-70 and 1 sled runs Dalton DTYA -1 weights. WHY? by mistake, Two same model sleds, same flash, same helix, Completely different shifting & top end speed with these weights, so different you would not believe you are ridding matching sleds, not even close. We both like the spring rate of stock springs but by adding the Dalton Black Green spring to the primary the horsepower came ALIVE, not for everyone, very jumpy, quick or racy feeling. Along with the spring we installed Thunder products glide washers to cut down on the primary spring bind. (helps but still broke a STOCK spring with them.)

Belts -- 8jp's we cannot get to last on flashed sidewinders. So we went to 8dn belts. How? We simple added shims to the belt ride hight. We had to add different combinations of shims to get the very loose belt that is needed to make the belts last. NOTE: remember I need to cut my plug, so how much you add WILL be different from sled to sled. ( factory shims a .2 & .5 thick. we are running a equivalent to .7 or one of each. MOST PEOPLE disagree with adding this much shim, but we aren't blowing belts anymore.


This is no BS, NO product pusher, just what a spent, THOUSANDS of dollars to enjoy my sled, I HATED this sidewinder from the first ride. Now at lease it doesn't blow belts.

Lonerider, the belt height when the machine is not moving only affects how loose, or tight, the belt is at engagement. It has no affect on how tight or loose the belt is once the clutches are engaged past a few mph.

 

[**sj**]

Lonerider, the belt height when the machine is not moving only affects how loose, or tight, the belt is at engagement. It has no affect on how tight or loose the belt is once the clutches are engaged past a few mph.

also a tight belt puts load on the the chaincase where it may cause issues with reverse...

 

[Lonerider]

Lonerider, the belt height when the machine is not moving only affects how loose, or tight, the belt is at engagement. It has no affect on how tight or loose the belt is once the clutches are engaged past a few mph.

Not sure what your point is? Ours are loose, It made a huge difference back shifting. When the belt was tight the secondary was not back shifting fast enough when running hi rpm's & letting off the throttle, I could hear the secondary slam open after coasting for a bit, it would coast & feel like you hit the brakes when we ran it tight, running to loose it backshift a lot smoother coasting better, I feel it keeps the primary & secondary back shifting more equal or at the same rate/ speed? Rather than the primary opening much faster than the secondary. When Is tight we would snap belts when we would get back on the throttle. This don't make sense but a tighter belt felt like it gave it slack during the backshift compared to a loose belt was tighter during the backshift? Not trying to argue, I am not smart, I had a lot of help & suggestions, but my sled was a belt eating machine & its not anymore. I am 100 percent convinced that this set up will work on any sidewinder.

 

[74Nitro]

Not sure what your point is? Ours are loose, It made a huge difference back shifting. When the belt was tight the secondary was not back shifting fast enough when running hi rpm's & letting off the throttle, I could hear the secondary slam open after coasting for a bit, it would coast & feel like you hit the brakes when we ran it tight, running to loose it backshift a lot smoother coasting better, I feel it keeps the primary & secondary back shifting more equal or at the same rate/ speed? Rather than the primary opening much faster than the secondary. When Is tight we would snap belts when we would get back on the throttle. This don't make sense but a tighter belt felt like it gave it slack during the backshift compared to a loose belt was tighter during the backshift? Not trying to argue, I am not smart, I had a lot of help & suggestions, but my sled was a belt eating machine & its not anymore. I am 100 percent convinced that this set up will work on any sidewinder.

My point is that a 'loose' or 'tight' belt when checked while the sled is at a standstill, has absolutely no affect whatsoever on the belt tension when the sled is in motion.

 

[KnappAttack]

My point is that a 'loose' or 'tight' belt when checked while the sled is at a standstill, has absolutely no affect whatsoever on the belt tension when the sled is in motion.

This is correct. It also has no effect whatsoever on running performance, either acceleration, deceleration or anything in between.

 

[cannondale27]

This is correct. It also has no effect whatsoever on running performance, either acceleration, deceleration or anything in between.

I agree but he is setting the belt loose. Could that be allowing control of belt whip because there is more travel in secondary on decel?

 

[cannondale27]

I wonder if the EBS system has a effect on this also? That could be changed or eliminated pretty easily by the tuners.

 

[HURRICANE]

All this debate but the root cause of the sidewinder belt failure is misalignment

 

[KnappAttack]

I agree but he is setting the belt loose. Could that be allowing control of belt whip because there is more travel in secondary on decel?

No.
Loose or tight belt deflection isn't going to have any effect on anything if the clutch is engaged on the belt for any reason.

Belt deflection just prevents the belt from rolling the track when idling, and will determine the ratio the sled starts moving at.

Tighter deflection basically lets the sled start in a lower gear as the belt is just a bit higher in the driven, loose deflection and its slipping a bit more on takeoff and in a "higher gear ratio" as the belt is lower in the driven.

Tight belt deflection is better for smooth engagement and taking off in a lower gear. Has no effect on belt durability (unless so tight it burns inside belt on post of drive clutch or is so loose it slips excessively on takeoff) , performance or back shift.

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, just like every clutch thread on any snowmobile forum.

Although I appreciate the posters desire to let people know what he has done to fix the issue, there is lots to be left to be answered and clarified here. What works for him may not work for another machine and rider.

 

[4strokes]

I wonder if the EBS system has a effect on this also? That could be changed or eliminated pretty easily by the tuners.

been wondering that myself. way too much brake reduction. I wonder if bypassing tors would have any affect, I doubt it. But I did have a switchback here that disabling tors made it alot better for slow manuvers by getting rid of the engine brake. that was the opposite case though

 

[4strokes]

are the random differences in offset between machines caused by stub shaft walking in and also can someone explain why these come with the secondary non floating. I thought previous secondarys floated where they needed to be

 

[KnappAttack]

They do float once the belt starts shifting in the driven. push the driven open by hand and let the belts drop down, you'll see it float on the shaft.