Clutch observation and issue. Calling clutch experts here.

[ClutchMaster]

Buy a clutch kit.

 

[chaleurphantom]

Belt returns to the top. Clutch is cool, I can put my hand on them and leave it there, I would say around 130 deg. Sled drives much differently. It upshifts quickly and rolls out easily. I even gained 2 mpg!!
The stock 35 degree helix is there to match the flat primary weights. When you change the stock weight to a more aggressive profile, you must change the helix profile as well. It seems that are people using the stiffer secondary spring to temporarily mask this problem.
Some times people think when they have that "snap" upon acceleration their sled is faster when actually it is just being held in a lower gear longer. This may be good for an application like sno-cross but the sled is not "faster". I have seen many "clutch kits "that do just that, making people believe the sled is faster when it not.
Put your truck in 1st gear and drive it around town. It has great throttle response, but it doesn't go any where. Same thing with monster secondary springs.[/Q

Belt returns to the top. Clutch is cool, I can put my hand on them and leave it there, I would say around 130 deg. Sled drives much differently. It upshifts quickly and rolls out easily. I even gained 2 mpg!!
The stock 35 degree helix is there to match the flat primary weights. When you change the stock weight to a more aggressive profile, you must change the helix profile as well. It seems that are people using the stiffer secondary spring to temporarily mask this problem.
Some times people think when they have that "snap" upon acceleration their sled is faster when actually it is just being held in a lower gear longer. This may be good for an application like sno-cross but the sled is not "faster". I have seen many "clutch kits "that do just that, making people believe the sled is faster when it not.
Put your truck in 1st gear and drive it around town. It has great throttle response, but it doesn't go any where. Same thing with monster secondary springs.

I pulled my 58gm HH and compared to stock weight profile. Very different. I am having heat issues in my clutches.

 

[STAIN]

what is your secondary set at?Are you stock or flashed? If stock, would run a much steeper helix than stock 35deg.

 

[STAIN]

Those stock weights look like mine. I swear there is a dip in that profile

 

[chaleurphantom]

what is your secondary set at?Are you stock or flashed? If stock, would run a much steeper helix than stock 35deg.

Stock ECU.

I tried stock 35 helix with Gates Carbon 8jp. Hot. Yamaha 8jp. Hot. Changed helix 33/37 & Dalton orange/black from TP orange. Cooler but still hot.

I am going to try stock weights.

 

[HMTurbo]

So here's the video of my sidewinder clutches in operation. Why doesn't the belt come back to the top of the secondary? My brothers sidewinder does the same thing, belt doesn't come right to the top when you let off the throttle. My dealer changed the bushings In the secondary, checked the offset, alignment and everything. The belt now comes up to the top of the secondary slightly better than this video, but still not like it should be IMO

Here is my nytro, the video is a little dark, but look how the secondary snaps shut immediately when letting off the gas or grabbing a handful of brakes.

Same primary weights In each sled and they are both loaded almost the same. (Stm 60y)

Is this a design flaw with the sidewinder secondary or what's the issue?

I blew 3 belts, and the first one went thru my sidepanel. My clutches don't heat up when driving hard or drag racing. Only snaps after locking up the track and then giving lots of throttle. My dealer has been great and has looked at the sled 3 times already.

Yamaha says there is nothing wrong with the sled, and has advised me to drive my sled accordingly. They told me not to grab the brakes and lock up the track, and that I should accelerate gently.

This is the exact same thing my Winder was doing with the 33/35 and stock spring. It was even ending up a bit further down in the secondary.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Stock ECU.

I tried stock 35 helix with Gates Carbon 8jp. Hot. Yamaha 8jp. Hot. Changed helix 33/37 & Dalton orange/black from TP orange. Cooler but still hot.

I am going to try stock weights.

Yea those stock weights should work good for you......belt tension is set in the secondary not the primary.

 

[chaleurphantom]

Anyone know the stock helix angle on a Viper. I used the HH on my Viper with great success. I am trying to wrap my head around the effect of this profile vs stock vs helix angles. My Viper clutches worked very well together with the Big Venom kit and gates carbon 8jp. I thought I could copy that into the Sidewinder but so far no luck.

What are Dalton weights profile compared to stock?

 

[STAIN]

I think the Viper was a 43? i ran a 51-43 on my turbo Viper

 

[ClutchMaster]

This was garbage anyhow
Hey ask 1nc 2000 he’s an expert, that’s his title.

 

[ClutchMaster]

It was useless info any way

 

[ClutchMaster]

If you ran the billy club weights with his helix/spring combo it would bog at low speed and over rev at high speed. BWTFDIK right?

 

[jonlafon1]

Been watching this and other clutching threads, two things
1. Would be great to give riding type for setup, seems not lot of aggressive corner to corner clutching, seems more top end stuff maybe.
2. If anyone has straight 38 to sell I'd be interested, looking to try it next.

If you do try a 38 straight I might have a set you will like.. IF you do.. PM me

 

[ClutchMaster]

Humm wonder what he said?

 

[HMTurbo]

The dalton black/orange has the same finish rate as the stocker, and is stiffer initial side load. Someone correct me if im wrong, but this should mean it brings the rpms up quicker, and finish rpms should be the same as stock?

"Brings the RPM's up quicker" is not really the way to look at it. Its keeping it in a lower ratio longer or not upshifting as fast. If the primary is shifting out and the secondary cannot follow in tune to some extent you might create extra load on the belt. As the primary is shifting out and the upshift in the secondary is too fast it can create slippage. The belt length can only handle so much total diameter of each pulley. When the shift balance is trying to exceed that we might snap belts. When the total diameter of where the belt is in the 2 pulleys is under we can cause slippage. Of course spring pressure plays a part on belt squeeze in the secondary.

Helix's (cams) are like a wedge splitting wood. Steeper goes in quicker (upshifts) but comes out (backshifts) slower. You can somewhat "equalize" a steeper cam with a shallower cam by the spring rate increases but there can be a cost. It all has to be in balance and that is the key.

Someone mentioned earlier on backshift slack occuring and then when back on the throttle quickly bang.....snapped belt. I agree with this assessment in the 1 belt I have broke. My brother has a boosted 17 SW that has broken 3 and he feels 2 broke this way on his. We apparently do not always get a balance on backshift between the primary and secondary in some situations keeping constant belt tension. Common sense tells me the primary is backshifting quicker than the secondary is. Maybe because of the engine of a 4 stroke being able to loose RPM quicker because of all the added moving internals over a 2 stroke. If this was the case I would think more twist force should help this as would a shallower cam. If the primary is not backshifting as fast as the secondary the two diameters are too large creating belt pressure not slack. I wouldn't think this would be a cause for snapping the belt when back into the throttle but I could be wrong.