Clutch test - new info

[stingray719]

Know how you feel X3. Friend and I had a 64 GTO with a 427 Chevy with tunnel ram & dual 780 Holley double pumpers. Until we had a starter hand wound by a local expert we put a new starter in every weekend. 12.5:1 compression will do that! Had a rock crusher trans with a Borg & Beck 4300 lb. double diaphragm clutch. Spinning a 4:56 rear end.

One seat, battery in trunk, and green metal flake. Used to shake the houses when we started it while tuning it at home. Used to make test runs (200-300 ft) on the street in front of the house almost weekly on the East Side of Detroit. That would have been 1970-71.

Things were simpler then, never had the police show, all the neighborhood kids came out to watch the mayhem! Oh yea, and a couple of the parents. Open headers really woke things up!

This 427

my neighbors were not happy with was in a 1966 El Camino , was so undriveable I sold it about 2 years ago. Ok back on topic now...lol.

 

[stingray719]

If you can get a part number Yamaha may have them as well at any dealer. Do you know if Pioneer has them?? He might be able to get them if you call them if they are not listed on his site.

The small shims can be bought from Yamaha, I have some of those but was looking for the 3mm to 6mm ones. Will check with Pioneer.

 

[stingray719]

Tried a orange/silver/orange, 35-143 without a spacer and it wasn't much better than stock. Put a 3 mm shim in it and WOW it lit it up. I can't seem to get the results I want without a spacer under the primary spring. Please note this test was on the new Viper I bought all stock except the spring and less than 2 miles on it.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Awesome bud!

 

[yamadoo]

Other than the higher rpm at engagement, once rolling is there any change in performance /throttle responnse mid range for example at trail speeds for corner to corner with the springs with out the spacer?

 

[NOS-PRO]

Mark, Stingray is doing this for a mountain setup....we will have to figure something for us flatlanders.

 

[stingray719]

Other than the higher rpm at engagement, once rolling is there any change in performance /throttle responnse mid range for example at trail speeds for corner to corner with the springs with out the spacer?

Actually the spacer did not raise my engagement speed like I thought it should. For some odd reason this effects the mid and top range more than engagement. unofficial seat of the pants looked like 800 rpm increase on top and was only about 400 engagement. That is on the or/sl/or spring. I know this defies common clutch knowledge, hard to argue with results though. I have done countless clutches and never saw one quite as odd as the Viper setup. As no snow this was tested down the asphalt street with wheels on skis, kinda like you flatlanders do

 

[stingray719]

Mark, Stingray is doing this for a mountain setup....we will have to figure something for us flatlanders.

Not going to do any fine clutch tunning in this thread, this is just to test the belt grip issue which is common to all 2014 Vipers. Leaving the flatlander high tech tunning to you!

 

[yamadoo]

I am so looking forward to the FLAT LANDERS set up!! Wow almost July and dreaming of sledding. LOL

 

[NOS-PRO]

Mark, I have a really good setup right now....but know I can get much more out of the viper. The winter we had was a great one, but it was late in the season when I talked to Bill (Stingray) and tried what we talked about. I was really trying to get the stock weights to work and I was able to do a good job, but the stock weights and belt setup were not working and I wasn't gaining any ground. I did very well racing.....but now with the different weight setup, I didn't just inch forward....I leaped forward increasing belt life, fuel mileage, top speed and increased the fun factor

Can't wait till the snow falls again!

 

[stingray719]

Mark, I have a really good setup right now....but know I can get much more out of the viper. The winter we had was a great one, but it was late in the season when I talked to Bill (Stingray) and tried what we talked about. I was really trying to get the stock weights to work and I was able to do a good job, but the stock weights and belt setup were not working and I wasn't gaining any ground. I did very well racing.....but now with the different weight setup, I didn't just inch forward....I leaped forward increasing belt life, fuel mileage, top speed and increased the fun factor

Can't wait till the snow falls again!

Agreed, everything I did was little improvements here and there. The spring shim when I tried that was a HUGE improvement on any setup I tried. Even in the test above done on a Viper straight out of the crate

 

[Moravec]

Bought another Viper today and did a fresh out of the box real world test.

2014 XTX Viper just out of crate, Myself, the shop owner, and his mechanic ride it. It is what we expected from a new Viper.

I put a 3 millimeter shim in the primary clutch under the primary spring and change the belt from the Viper 8jp belt to a Nytro 8dn belt (belt change was so I do not get belt dust in my clutch, and is unlikely it had any performance effect) ONLY CHANGE IS BOOSTING SPRING RATE WITH A 3 MM SHIM.

WOW, what a difference. Sled with stock setup spun the track a little, with shim it left big black marks for about a full car length and more. Not only did the shop owner marvel at the change we drew a crowd of around 7 or 8 people watching the test.

Now, of course you can do better than this in fact I have a 30-143 primary I am going to test so I can not use any shims. Or you can buy an Ulmer or Hartman kit. But for those that do not buy any vendor kits this seems to be the answer. This is a follow on from the clutch setup last winter, just felt I wanted to do a fresh test without any other modifications from stock to be certain of our testing.

Questions welcome but please don't bash something you have not tried, my patience for that is a little thin from last year......I post this for your benefit not mine.[/QUOTE

 

[Moravec]

Bought another Viper today and did a fresh out of the box real world test.

2014 XTX Viper just out of crate, Myself, the shop owner, and his mechanic ride it. It is what we expected from a new Viper.

I put a 3 millimeter shim in the primary clutch under the primary spring and change the belt from the Viper 8jp belt to a Nytro 8dn belt (belt change was so I do not get belt dust in my clutch, and is unlikely it had any performance effect) ONLY CHANGE IS BOOSTING SPRING RATE WITH A 3 MM SHIM.

WOW, what a difference. Sled with stock setup spun the track a little, with shim it left big black marks for about a full car length and more. Not only did the shop owner marvel at the change we drew a crowd of around 7 or 8 people watching the test.

Now, of course you can do better than this in fact I have a 30-143 primary I am going to test so I can not use any shims. Or you can buy an Ulmer or Hartman kit. But for those that do not buy any vendor kits this seems to be the answer. This is a follow on from the clutch setup last winter, just felt I wanted to do a fresh test without any other modifications from stock to be certain of our testing.

Questions welcome but please don't bash something you have not tried, my patience for that is a little thin from last year......I post this for your benefit not mine.

Ok so I may be the only one but can you explain what you need to do to put the shim in the primary, what tools we need, and any other things that would be helpful

 

[stingray719]

Ok so I may be the only one but can you explain what you need to do to put the shim in the primary, what tools we need, and any other things that would be helpful

Sure!

1. 10mm socket to take the 6 bolts out of the primary clutch cover, hold it as you take the bolts out as it is spring loaded.
2. Put shim (big washer actually) between spring and clutch
3. Make sure the X on the cover and the clutch align for balance purpose, push cover down and hold and put bolts in. Blue threadlock on bolts not a bad idea.
4. Go embarrass Polaris Pros.

 

[stingray719]

Ok so I may be the only one but can you explain what you need to do to put the shim in the primary, what tools we need, and any other things that would be helpful

If you have a problem or issue doing this private message me with phone number and I will help via phone. Never mind stopping to talk about sleds.