Clutching on the cheap

[stingray719]

Well I went for a ride in a freshly groomed ditch. I got in to some powder and pinned it. Heard the rev limiter so I stopped and check the recall. 9340. Wow never seen it that high. Did a cpl hole shots and never heard it on hard pack. Will keep an eye on tach to see if I am going to have to add weight. If you break traction should you expect to bang rev or if clutched right it wong get that high?

You can be set right and hit rev limiter without traction I.E. spinout. What is your rpm without a spinout?

 

[bleedyamaha]

You can be set right and hit rev limiter without traction I.E. spinout. What is your rpm without a spinout?

I will have to get back to you on that. We are riding all day today so I will find out what rpms hold at or drop off.

 

[cannondale27]

You can be set right and hit rev limiter without traction I.E. spinout. What is your rpm without a spinout?

That's not acceptable for trails Stingray. Maybe extremely slippery ice 1 maybe 2 stutters would be acceptable but even that would bother me. It should just spin.

 

[chad26]

I'm in the same boat have everything I need for the clutch mod but no g-w-g spring. Haven't decided if I should get the 46/ 40 helix, do I need the helix to get the best from clutching on the cheap performance or can I stay with the stock 43? I have roughly 143 mile on it so far and mainly tight twisty trail break in. The top speed so far is abour 72 mph but haven't held it wide open yet for long stretches and the max rpm was about 8400. I did average 15 mpg so far.
Setup so far mbrp trail can, 8dn belt properly set and washers behind helix for the coil spring bind and also 96 studs in the track. I do have the viper ltx dx model! Trying to get it ready for West Yellowstone ride next month, but no enough snow around to get it dialed in yet. I also have C&A pro MTX ski with 8 inch carbides.
Thinking about trying my MTX skis for trail riding what do you think? Have a good push in the corners now with my tuners with 6in and the stock carbides on the outside.
I do have the bender shims a 4mm and 5 of the 1mm shims. Should try shimming the primary to raise my rpms?

 

[kviper]

That's not acceptable for trails Stingray. Maybe extremely slippery ice 1 maybe 2 stutters would be acceptable but even that would bother me. It should just spin.

This is where the aftermarket weights stands out! The flat profile of the Yamaha weight's does not keep up and does not have weight loading capabilitys to over come the problem and then when you get over shift from the spin the flat heavy weight don't recover nearly as well when you do hook up.

 

[stingray719]

That's not acceptable for trails Stingray. Maybe extremely slippery ice 1 maybe 2 stutters would be acceptable but even that would bother me. It should just spin.

Maybe I did not say it as it was meant, but on rare occasion where I get my track to spin with NO traction I can get a burp or two.

 

[stingray719]

This is where the aftermarket weights stands out! The flat profile of the Yamaha weight's does not keep up and does not have weight loading capabilitys to over come the problem and then when you get over shift from the spin the flat heavy weight don't recover nearly as well when you do hook up.

Which model Viper do you ride?

Seriously though the aggressive weights load the top end too much and result in lower top speeds, like the many posters that complain about not being able to hit 100mph and some not over 80. We have seen this with all the Vipers in our testing. Just an FYI we have real life tested most if not all the aftermarket weights, some not so bad and some horrible. The worst were aggressive profile with a bump on the heel, and you being a two stroke guy should know which aftermarket weight that is. We always end up back with the Yamaha flat profile weights.

So if you wish to start a weight spat please start another thread.

 

[stingray719]

I'm in the same boat have everything I need for the clutch mod but no g-w-g spring. Haven't decided if I should get the 46/ 40 helix, do I need the helix to get the best from clutching on the cheap performance or can I stay with the stock 43? I have roughly 143 mile on it so far and mainly tight twisty trail break in. The top speed so far is abour 72 mph but haven't held it wide open yet for long stretches and the max rpm was about 8400. I did average 15 mpg so far.
Setup so far mbrp trail can, 8dn belt properly set and washers behind helix for the coil spring bind and also 96 studs in the track. I do have the viper ltx dx model! Trying to get it ready for West Yellowstone ride next month, but no enough snow around to get it dialed in yet. I also have C&A pro MTX ski with 8 inch carbides.
Thinking about trying my MTX skis for trail riding what do you think? Have a good push in the corners now with my tuners with 6in and the stock carbides on the outside.
I do have the bender shims a 4mm and 5 of the 1mm shims. Should try shimming the primary to raise my rpms?

If you ride over 70 mph on a regular basis the 46/40 helix helps a lot. That helix slows the shift on the top end so you can get more top speed, but if you are going to Yellowstone leave the stock Helix in for now. PM me your phone number and I can help you with the Yellowstone setup.

 

[kviper]

LOL! A clutch weight is a clutch weight.

I have two friend's with Viper's that we have been working on, They respond to clutch component's EXACTLY the same as any other clutch! How many STM weight's have you tuned?

 

[stingray719]

LOL! A clutch weight is a clutch weight.

I have two friend's with Viper's that we have been working on, They respond to clutch component's EXACTLY the same as any other clutch! How many STM weight's have you tuned?

If you think all weights act the same our conversation is over.

 

[kviper]

First off I haven't owned a two stroke since 02! Second a weight is a weight meaning they apply centrifugal force, weight location and profile dictates where the in the shift curve force is applied. Some agressive profiles are at there best to match stock weight force at full shift and that's why MPH is not necessarily all that much better unless there is another problem as with the Viper.
We have one improved stock SRX on our race team otherwise we run a 550 HP Turbo and have an Outlaw Viper being built by Onestop performance as we speak. We also do a lot of trail sled clutching, mainly team members and friend's of the team. I have yet to see a Yamaha weight out accelerate or out back shift an STM weight if tuned properly.https://www.facebook.com/TeamFastFourDragRacing

 

[stingray719]

First off I haven't owned a two stroke since 02! Second a weight is a weight meaning they apply centrifugal force, weight location and profile dictates where the in the shift curve force is applied. Some agressive profiles are at there best to match stock weight force at full shift and that's why MPH is not necessarily all that much better unless there is another problem as with the Viper.
We have one improved stock SRX on our race team otherwise we run a 550 HP Turbo and have an Outlaw Viper being built by Onestop performance as we speak. We also do a lot of trail sled clutching, mainly team members and friend's of the team. I have yet to see a Yamaha weight out accelerate or out back shift an STM weight if tuned properly.https://www.facebook.com/TeamFastFourDragRacing

Ok, before you try to derail this thread too far, this is called "clutching on the cheap" not whose race sled clutch works better. Find a cheaper clutch setup that works better and I will test it and if better will ask the moderator to remove this thread and we will all runs yours....deal?

 

[stingray719]

Which model Viper do you ride?

Seriously though the aggressive weights load the top end too much and result in lower top speeds, like the many posters that complain about not being able to hit 100mph and some not over 80. We have seen this with all the Vipers in our testing. Just an FYI we have real life tested most if not all the aftermarket weights, some not so bad and some horrible. The worst were aggressive profile with a bump on the heel, and you being a two stroke guy should know which aftermarket weight that is. We always end up back with the Yamaha flat profile weights.

So if you wish to start a weight spat please start another thread.

WAIT, that's not entirely true. I have been testing Super Rat weights made by Bender in our red Viper and if they continue to work as well as they have I will be putting them in my blue Viper. They have a curved profile but as the weight is hollow and has a ball bearing in it the weight follows the roller and as such isn't aggressive shifting. So yes there is one aftermarket weight that has beat the flat profile Yamaha weights, at least so far.

 

[kviper]

None of my posts are or were intended to prove anything about race sleds, but to prove that I do also have some experience with clutching with stock and aftermarket components just as you claim in your post with all your testing. (even though i don't personally own a Viper, LOL!) And as far as hijacking is concerned you jumped in on the clutching help thread (pertaining to fine tuning an Ulmer clutch kit) and all a sudden there's three or more pages about the cheap in that thread. Actually I think that was the thread where I recommended that people stay off the rev limiter and I got the WHAT???? response from you. Just trying to help and point out the differences, just like you guys providing a cheaper option for clutching!

 

[edc]

Want to do clutching on cheep set up . my questions are:
1. do i need to pull the clutch to change the weights ? (need clutch puller?)
2. do i need to replace the nut on weight bolts or use lock tite or just put nut back on and tighten.
3. do i have to lock tite the two set screws that hold each weight bolt from turning?

want make sure i get every thing i need .