Drive axle bearing behind disc brake

[NOS-PRO]

Yup, Shag's was wore down about an 1/8 inch total diameter also.

I'm thinking about this whole thing and with working at a machine shop for 25 years now, I believe the axle diameter being ground to a very smooth finish (plus the loose fitting diameter also) caused this.

Both Shag and myself bought new axles for asphalt so we wouldn't have to change drivers. I am going to fix Shag's drive axle at work by making a sleeve that will be pressed on the diameter, then reground to the diameter it should be.

 

[cannondale27]

Looks like I better get mine out of storage to look.

 

[RTX]

Yup, Shag's was wore down about an 1/8 inch total diameter also.

I'm thinking about this whole thing and with working at a machine shop for 25 years now, I believe the axle diameter being ground to a very smooth finish (plus the loose fitting diameter also) caused this.

Both Shag and myself bought new axles for asphalt so we wouldn't have to change drivers. I am going to fix Shag's drive axle at work by making a sleeve that will be pressed on the diameter, then reground to the diameter it should be.

NOS
Just curious, have you ever removed a bearing off of a driveshaft that was not damaged?
Im asking because i am wondering how hard the bearings are to to remove from the shaft.
In my opinion, if the bearing can be removed from the shaft without the use of heat,a press or a bearing puller there is something wrong with the fit tolerances.

Just thinking outloud but maybe the bore tolerances on the bearings are speced wrong from the factory (cat) and we need a tighter fitting bearing. Sometimes .0005 - .001 can make all the difference in the world in an application that requires a press fit

Back a few years ago, I took an 8 hour training class held by henkel specifically on loctite products and thier proper use.
According to Henkel/loctite. On an average press fit, only about 30% of the 2 surfaces are making contact. Obviously this varies dependent on fit, finish,and tolerances.
In this case with the arctic cat drive shaft and bearing , If drive shaft or bearing tolerances are off at all, you would have even less than the standard 30% contact area which could help to explain why we are seeing this wear issue.

 

[shagman]

Wear after about 5700 miles.

 

[shagman]

NOS
Just curious, have you ever removed a bearing off of a driveshaft that was not damaged?
Im asking because i am wondering how hard the bearings are to to remove from the shaft.
In my opinion, if the bearing can be removed from the shaft without the use of heat,a press or a bearing puller there is something wrong with the fit tolerances.

Just thinking outloud but maybe the bore tolerances on the bearings are speced wrong from the factory (cat) and we need a tighter fitting bearing. Sometimes .0005 - .001 can make all the difference in the world in an application that requires a press fit

Back a few years ago, I took an 8 hour training class held by henkel specifically on loctite products and thier proper use.
According to Henkel/loctite. On an average press fit, only about 30% of the 2 surfaces are making contact. Obviously this varies dependent on fit, finish,and tolerances.
In this case with the arctic cat drive shaft and bearing , If drive shaft or bearing tolerances are off at all, you would have even less than the standard 30% contact area which could help to explain why we are seeing this wear issue.

It is a slip fit not a press fit. But it is too loose of a slip fit. I plan on making the fit tighter when I change my sled back for snow. A full press fit will be too tight as it will make assembly tough. A tight slip fit should hold without the race spinning. In other words bearing lightly tapped into place. I also have to address the movement of the shaft left to right due to wear on the hub of brake rotor. Might need new rotor or thin shim to take up play. Hope this helps everyone.

 

[cannondale27]

Thanks Shagman. I have a stock rotor you can have.

 

[RTX]

It is a slip fit not a press fit. But it is too loose of a slip fit. I plan on making the fit tighter when I change my sled back for snow. A full press fit will be too tight as it will make assembly tough. A tight slip fit should hold without the race spinning. In other words bearing lightly tapped into place. I also have to address the movement of the shaft left to right due to wear on the hub of brake rotor. Might need new rotor or thin shim to take up play. Hope this helps everyone.

Ahhhhh i see.
I have not removed the driveshaft yet so i dont know what it takes to assemble/disassemble it.
Slip fit bearing on a shaft like this probably should have been designed with some sort of locking collar or set screws.
I will be using loctite bearing retainer on mine.
Thanks for the info guys

 

[NOS-PRO]

NOS
Just curious, have you ever removed a bearing off of a driveshaft that was not damaged?
Im asking because i am wondering how hard the bearings are to to remove from the shaft.
In my opinion, if the bearing can be removed from the shaft without the use of heat,a press or a bearing puller there is something wrong with the fit tolerances.

Just thinking outloud but maybe the bore tolerances on the bearings are speced wrong from the factory (cat) and we need a tighter fitting bearing. Sometimes .0005 - .001 can make all the difference in the world in an application that requires a press fit

Back a few years ago, I took an 8 hour training class held by henkel specifically on loctite products and thier proper use.
According to Henkel/loctite. On an average press fit, only about 30% of the 2 surfaces are making contact. Obviously this varies dependent on fit, finish,and tolerances.
In this case with the arctic cat drive shaft and bearing , If drive shaft or bearing tolerances are off at all, you would have even less than the standard 30% contact area which could help to explain why we are seeing this wear issue.

Just like Shag said, any kind of press fit will make this assembly/disassembly very hard because the disc brake splines add to the assembly hassle also.

From what am thinking and with Cannondale stopping over last night to talk about the drive axle....All I can say is that bearing really has to be cleaned, lubed/regreased and checked. Cannondale made a point last night that the diameter of the splines may be too large for me to press a sleeve on, so I will definitely have to look at that.

 

[TD Max]

Sounds like kind of a catch 22 here. Can't have it loose/sloppy/spinning on shaft, BUT if we stop the movement what keeps it from rusting in place? Can't hardly lube it or it will spin again.

So with all of this misplaced friction, thrust on the brakes etc this would sure seem to be be a big part of the top speed woes and inconsistency.

I haven't had mine apart, but I'm thinking a good Loctite is going to be mandatory.

 

[Tricky Nick]

This will help alot.

 

[Joe ltx-le]

I bet the loctite will work. I've used that for other applications.
My sled comes in this summer and I'm changing the track. If the bearing seems like a real loose slip fit I'm going to loctite it.

 

[RTX]

Sounds like kind of a catch 22 here. Can't have it loose/sloppy/spinning on shaft, BUT if we stop the movement what keeps it from rusting in place? Can't hardly lube it or it will spin again.

So with all of this misplaced friction, thrust on the brakes etc this would sure seem to be be a big part of the top speed woes and inconsistency.

I haven't had mine apart, but I'm thinking a good Loctite is going to be mandatory.

On the yamaha driveshafts it is also a slip fit but they use setscrews to lock it in place so there is no issue with it spinning on the shaft.
With that said i have never had either of my 2 yamahas rust onto the shaft but i am pretty good on my maintenance and change out bearings every2nd or 3rd season dependent on miles.
If rusting is a concern the loctite will bond the 2 surfaces and help to prevent rusting.

Not all sleds have this issue.
It is happening more on the sleds that are older, with higher mileage.
I would think this would only affect top speed if your bearing is spinning and damaging the shaft.
If your sled is new, as your was this past season, i really dont think you have experienced speed issues related to something like this. But others may have

 

[RTX]

This will help alot.

641 is a good choice if you already have it
Personally, if i was to go out and buy loctite for this specific application i would get the 648.
648 is a new product and it is designed to work on bare metal or oily parts.
Has a higher shear strength 4500 psi Vs 1700 psi for 641
And will work without primers on inactive materials.
The only thing 641 has as an advantage over 648 is it takes less heat to remove it.
Regardless, im sure it will work, just letting you know there is a better choice.

 

[cannondale27]

If you look at the measurements in that link they are going to be more than Loctite will work well with. I am going with peening the shaft enough to that the assembly may need to be pulled on with the bolts from in tunnel at least if mine isn't wore to much already.

 

[STAIN]

If you pull the assembly on how will you get it apart?