How many vipers with starters going bad?

[cannondale27]

Your right there. Very hard to check case hardening depth without destroying the piece.

I've seen very similar problems on some cat Diesel engine timing gears. Too deep on the hardening, my question is why wouldn't there be a fix yet if this is the problem. But again if there was zero kick back even the gears that are in question would probably never fail.

Depends how brittle they are. And many say the 14's never kicked back yet those have failed also. After beating on that Phazer gear it would sure be piece of mind for me to have a gear like that in there and not a glass gear. I would rather have starter be the weak point. No pieces in motor.

 

[titanrcr]

Depends how brittle they are. And many say the 14's never kicked back yet those have failed also. After beating on that Phazer gear it would sure be piece of mind for me to have a gear like that in there and not a glass gear. I would rather have starter be the weak point. No pieces in motor.

Just curious if the 14s with the original flash have failed the gears or did they fail in some other way?

 

[Studroes144]

Myself and another original 2014 both with failed starter gears and never had a kickback on either.

 

[titanrcr]

Myself and another original 2014 both with failed starter gears and never had a kickback on either.

Well that's not good, guess I'll be signing up for YES coverage before the current warranty runs out.

 

[Sasquatch]

More than one cause to starters going bad. The pic Cannondale posted was metal crystallization, which is impending failure that can be hurried by abuse (kickbacks,etc) But I am not going to spend any more time explaining metallurgy as I feel you are here to bash not learn anything.

Wow! Good old internet! Don't like my opinion so I must be bashing!

Here's wishing for snow! Too many touchy people on here! Maybe some snow will help!

 

[stingray719]

Wow! Good old internet! Don't like my opinion so I must be bashing!

Here's wishing for snow! Too many touchy people on here! Maybe some snow will help!

Sorry, I took your comments remembering all the previous bashing posts and assumed more of the same. Apologies if I was wrong.

 

[Sasquatch]

Sorry, I took your comments remembering all the previous bashing posts and assumed more of the same. Apologies if I was wrong.

I rode Cats for years, I don't dislike them. I do however have a real bad taste in my mouth with the broken gears and motors the gears go through. I don't care if its Cats Fault or Yamaha's! Its a bad stain on a reliable engine that I just can't recommend to anyone! I can forgive all kinds of failures but I went from Cat (1000 Pantera that I loved) to Yamaha for their bullet proof engines. Puked crankshafts on the Cat at 10 to 12,000 miles was not the sled I wanted anymore!

You think the gears are too hard and therefore brittle. I know Cast iron is stronger then steel but whack it with a hammer and it shatters. I get the metallurgy of it all but backfires when starting in this day and age is unheard of. One problem could compound another making it worse but for Christs sake fix it and not with rubber gears. I suppose that is my fear we will make the gears softer so they will take a backfire and then we don't have to fix the other problem.

I think of my 2010 truck and if it backfired and broke starters, ring gears and possibly the engine block mounting points I'd be livid and wanting to know why it backfires first and foremost and very unhappy with a softer gear as the fix. Leaving the backfire as I shrug my shoulders you live with it sort of thing. Looking at it both things need to be addressed and that I think was your point. My bad! Proving the gears are too hard needs more then a picture however, taking a new gear and testing it is the only way. Something out of our hands. Maybe a class action suit would do it?

Thing about a Marriage is when things go wrong both start to point fingers and all the children pick sides and then the infighting starts. After that things are never the same! To clarify I don't think the Yamaha Cat marriage produced a bad sled. I think it produced a sled with problems that two companies working together trying to make two technologies work as one can't seem to solve. Kinda like putting a Ford engine in a Chevy or vise versa and trying to make the electrics and computers of the first work perfectly on the later. I should be doable with both at the plate together but!

I still think that Yamaha should have taken the Cat chassis that works and put the total Yamaha package in it that works. Or then again maybe I'm just bashing the Catamaha!

 

[mtotguy]

Just curious if the 14s with the original flash have failed the gears or did they fail in some other way?

I had 3000 miles on my 14 before I had it reflashed. It never kicked back. The starter worked fine. After the reflash it kicked back 3 times in 1500 miles. After the third kickback the starter was gone. And it wasn't a case of shattered gears. The magnet inside the starter shattered. I now have had 2 kickbacks on the second starter. In about 1000 miles. So I believe it's living on borrowed time.

 

[Studroes144]

I had 3000 miles on my 14 before I had it reflashed. It never kicked back. The starter worked fine. After the reflash it kicked back 3 times in 1500 miles. After the third kickback the starter was gone. And it wasn't a case of shattered gears. The magnet inside the starter shattered. I now have had 2 kickbacks on the second starter. In about 1000 miles. So I believe it's living on borrowed time.

In your case at this point is get that Ecu sent out to Evo ASAP to get that straightened out.

 

[NOS-PRO]

I had 3000 miles on my 14 before I had it reflashed. It never kicked back. The starter worked fine. After the reflash it kicked back 3 times in 1500 miles. After the third kickback the starter was gone. And it wasn't a case of shattered gears. The magnet inside the starter shattered. I now have had 2 kickbacks on the second starter. In about 1000 miles. So I believe it's living on borrowed time.

Not good mtotguy, Sounds exactly like my situation....everything fine at 2,800 miles until the re-flash.

3 options here.....

1) wait for Yamaha to come out with a fix.... (don't see it happening soon)
2) get a fuel controller to fix the problem on start up and idle... or, better yet
3) Send your ECU to EVO like studroes mentioned, get one of their performance flashes and increase power, increase rpm limiter for about the same price as a fuel controller.

 

[Yamadog]

Just my .02 cents here but mine almost feels like they have pushed the timing envelope so far, that if your running 87 octane, the faster burning fuel is firing before top dead center causing the engine to fire early and kick back against the starter. My 14 has been turbo'd since new and never reflashed cause it has been always a turn of the key and start. My 15 last season was N/A and I only filled it up once with gas from the hauler which was 91/110 octane mix added to the 3 gallons of gas the dealer had in it and never did it. When I brought it home it was as close to empty as possible. To move it I put 4 gallons of 87 in it that I had in the shop and 3 times in warm weather trying to start it, it kicked back.

 

[trevorl1]

Has anyone tried a aftermarket starter? They are a third of the price and I cant see they could be worst then the Yamaha one.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/STARTER-YAMA...011-/171063058943?hash=item27d42721ff&vxp=mtr

 

[Yamadog]

Well the starter is not usually the issue it is the ring gear inside the motor that breaks, which requires pulling it to replace the gear.

 

[trevorl1]

The magnets inside my starter are totaled and the gears on it also. So it's both for me.

 

[stingray719]

Just my .02 cents here but mine almost feels like they have pushed the timing envelope so far, that if your running 87 octane, the faster burning fuel is firing before top dead center causing the engine to fire early and kick back against the starter. My 14 has been turbo'd since new and never reflashed cause it has been always a turn of the key and start. My 15 last season was N/A and I only filled it up once with gas from the hauler which was 91/110 octane mix added to the 3 gallons of gas the dealer had in it and never did it. When I brought it home it was as close to empty as possible. To move it I put 4 gallons of 87 in it that I had in the shop and 3 times in warm weather trying to start it, it kicked back.

Might be why we have never had the kickback as we always run 91+ octane.